Question for Army rotorheads

[BoilerUP]

I've been considering joining the Army Reserves or National Guard in hopes of going into WOFT. Here is a bit of my background:

600 TT
COM-ASMEL
CFI-IA
Junior in a major univeristy aviation program

I was formerly enrolled in AFROTC with scholarship and all, but a single entry of asthma in my med records at age 14 got me removed before Field Training. The local Army Reserves recruiter seemed to think that wouldn't be an issue as long as I could prove I currently didn't have the asthma (already taken a methacoline challenge and passed) and was in top-notch physical shape. Also said with my aviation qualifications, I shouldn't have much of a problem getting accepted as long as the medical wasn't a show-stopper.

I believe if I actually did this, I would do it after I graduate in May 2005 so not to interrupt my education. My intention would be to finish training as quickly as possible (Warrant plus RW school is 18-24 months?) so I could get back to civvy flying and hopefully get on with a company like Airnet or a regional carrier. I don't object to being deployed, but I wouldn't want to go active right away if I could help it. I'm thinking KY/IN/OH area for NG or Reserves.

I was wondering what you guys thought about doing something like this, if the benefits and hardships of Warrant and RW training would be worth it (like that's not a loaded question). Might I be better served going to OTS and going RW school from there?

Sorry if I seemed to ramble - but this would be a HUGE decision for me to make in the next 12 or less months. Thanks for everybody's help!

 

[Birdstrike]

Reserves = Likely Deploment(s)

Assuming that you get a waiver for asthma from the Army, you should expect that you will be deployed, possibly fairly soon after. It actually may or may not happen of course, but it's likely. Don't apply unless you accept this.

You're aviation qualifications to the WOFT Board are less important than your character and their judgment of your likely compatibility with military service. So go for it only if you are willing to have your civilian fixed wing career interrupted by an unscheduled 12 month deployment to southwest asia. The Guard and Reserve are no longer places to go just to build time and experience. You can expect your life to be disrupted in a major way at least once, possibly more than once.

Maybe I misunderstood but since you were eliminated from USAF flight training eligibility already due to asthma, how would OTS be an option? Also, don't expect to do any fixed-wing flying while you're in WOFT. At 600TT it will be awhile before you're eligible for anything in Part 121 also. You can still certainly reach your goals, it will just likely take a little longer than you probably anticipated...and may have a few extra detours if you do go the Guard/USAR route.

 

[ThomasR]

Reserves vs Guard

I am an ex rotor head both Army active and National Guard. My experience was that recruitment is a function of world events. Everything is long in coming and once it gets there it is a flurry of confusion and clutter. Once you are in the military give up any personal life you might enjoy; you will be Government Issue with a number identifier.

Reserves traditionally are replacement troops while the National Guard train and act as a unit. Reserves replace losses in the field. The National Guard are deployed as a unit until they become ineffective due to losses or the mission is complete.

Current events should warn you that yesterdays impression of using the military to gain training for civilian life is fast becoming history. Everyone is considered "volunteers", which rings loud in congressional ears when someone has a grievance about recruiting and deployment promises that become confusing in the flurry and clutter of a "declared war."

Commissioned Officers get paid much more than Warrants. However, a WO will content only with flying and will remain in an aviation unit. Commissions get yanked around as needed.

Everyone talks about the new technical Army of the electronic age. When I was active 60% fatalities were from "friendly fire". That includes personal mistakes, mishaps as a result of others mistakes, flukes, fumbles, misreading instructions and acts of God. Even with all this technology, that 60% is still true and most of it happens far from FEBA [forward edge of the battle area].

War is a fact of human existence. It's design is to create change, ..... rapidly. We need a strong and healthy military and my heard aches for those we lose in service. If you really want to fly in the Army it must be for a focus you have within you. It does not have to be noble but it will be tested, revealed and come part of our national character.

 

[BoilerUP]

Thanks both of you for your responses.

My asthma deal was taken all the way to the AF Legislative Liason in DC via my Senators and Congressman. I recieved a letter from them stating "to be eligible for a waiver...no evidence of asthma after the age of twelve OR seven years from last occurance." Seven years to the day will be 25 Aug 04; I graduate May 05.

I cannot say emphatically enough I DO NOT HAVE ASTHMA. In discussions with a doctor at DoDMERB, I was told "For AFROTC, it doesn't matter what you do or don't have right now, its what is in your past medical history we care about." In my final PFT in AFROTC, I scored a 429/500, maxing the pushups and situps and ran 1.5 miles in 10:08. I'm currently training for a half-marathon this spring, and run approx. 20 miles a week.

I have been told that if I applied for AF OTS, I would have my medical submitted up the chain, it would most likely be denied, an appeal would begin with documentation of my entire respiratory history. If the docs think I'm clean I'd most likely have to submit to another methacoline challenge or a stress test, as well as the normal PFTs. Pass those and I can get a waiver and go on in the process from there. No waiver, no deal - dead in the water, thanks but no thanks. This is all for Air Force, I would (probably fasely) assume the process is similar for Army OTS. The Army recruiter told me that if I signed up for WOFT and was competitive, I would go to MEPS, take the tests, and see what the docs said - but he said he didn't think it would be a big deal. I honestly don't know.

I don't have any problem being deployed, and I fully expect a deployment or three, especialy given the current world climate. A former classmate is a UH60 pilot in the Indiana Guard (maybe Reserve?) and he got pulled away twice in consecutive years two weeks before the semester ended.

The point of the matter is I really want to serve my country, and I think I could best do that as an aviator. I'm willing to be poked, prodded and ran to death to prove a clean bill of health just for the opportunity to train. My first choice is Air Force (family ties), but I don't think of Army Aviation as just a fallback, rather as a second option.

Sorry for the long-winded story, but thanks again for everyone's input!

 

[weekendwarrior]

First of all, don't listen to a recruiter. You need to talk to USAARL, US Army Aviation Research Laboratory. They are the ones that have to approve the med waivers. No congressman can help you there.

Your qualifications are fine. Understand that you may have to serve enlisted if you go guard. In my state you have to be MOS qualified for a year before you can apply for flight school.

Here's my recommendation:

Join the guard now. (Or when you are sure you are past the asthma thing).

Go enlisted aviation. Get your college money to finish up school. Serve a year or two enlisted in an aviation unit. Then apply for flight school. Coming from an aviation unit, your qualifications, and if you have some good letters from your unit, you should have no problem getting picked up.

Again, the medical thing needs to be approved by Fort Rucker. The only way to find out is to apply. Worst case, if you joined the guard, you would still serve your country, be around a great group of people in aviation, and get some good benefits and money while you built time being a CFI or something. (Assuming you weren't deployed, of courese)

Go for it man, either way I don't think you will be dissapointed, based on your apparent desire to serve and even given a shot at the opportunity.

I joined the Guard on April 20, 2000. I did so with the intent of flying Apaches. I served enlisted for 2.5 years before I got here, and now I am flying the most amazing aircraft in the inventory. I'm thinking I am enjoying this more than I would flying jets. Do it, bro.

 

[FastPilot]

Question: In regards to flight school, is it possible to sponsored by a reserve unit and send a packet through without enlisting in the unit first? I know that this was done in the past, but have things changed?

Question 2: I know the age limits for a warrent slot, but what about if I want to go to OCS? What are the age limits? I've been told they are different, but no one I have tlked to is sure of the exact age. Also, does prior active duty on your DD214 still count to "reduce" your effective age?

Question 3: If you enlist in the unit in a will train MOS, get picked up for flight school, but the date to start training is AFTER the 12 month grace to attend mos training, do you have to delay ocs and FS to attend mos training? Or is the 12 month window extended? What if the unit is activated during that time?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[usaair12]

Go Boilers!

BoilerUP,

I just got news of my acceptance to WOFT. It is a long process to gain entry, so start now! It took approx. 8 months for me. I believe if you are planning on going Reserve or NG, you can get a unit to sponsor your training. My brother in law is an Officer Strength Manager in the NG based out of Indianapolis. He got me hooked up with the right people when I started. He aslo got me introduced to the NG unit based in Shelbyville that flies Black Hawkes. I am going Active, but I looked at the NG and Reserves, but decided to make a career out of it. I'd be more than happy to talk to another Boiler on this subject. Yes, I am a Purdue Alumni!

FastPilot,

According to the documentation I have, you must not exceed 29 years of age at the enrollement of OCS. Waivers are granted though, I'm proof. I just got an age waiver for WOFT. I turned 29 during the paperwork process.

 

[weekendwarrior]

As far as age goes, don't worry about that. Right now there are more older people going through flight school (like me) than ever before. I'm 32, I know someone that is 35, and I just heard of a 39 year old. All are Warrants, so I can't speak for OCS.

 

[FastPilot]

Thanks for the info. Weekendwarrior, did you have to enlist in the unit in order to get an age wavier? Any more info on the whole process? The people I am working with are nice, but I feel like there is a lot more info out there than what I am getting. How long is WOCS? What is the time frame from graduation to starting flight school? How long is primary (or whatever the Army calls it)? What about A/C specific training? What is the course like for the AH-64? Thanks for all fo the help.

Steve

 

[weekendwarrior]

I was enlisted for 2 years before, so I don't know what your potential unit may require you to be enlisted first. Arizona at the time required you to be MOS qualified and serve enlisted for one year. Active duty you can go straight into the program without an enlistment. You have a 6 year commitment after flight school.

WOCS is 6 weeks, and is not hard at all. A little stressful at times, but pretty easy overall. Between WOCS and primary is only about 2 weeks.

Aircraft selection depends on how well you do in class. (unless you are National Guard of course). Typically, 80%-90% of the slots awarded are UH-60's. The rest are devided up into AH64's, OH-58s (for now) and CH-47's.