Pinnacle aircraft orders with NW

[Mel Sharples]

The pay for the Saab is out f#*%ing standing

That is why I think the Mesaba contract doesn't suck. It is not a "we rolled over" kind of contract, either. Could the Mesaba pilots have gotten more? Maybe. Hard to say knowing the mentality of the NWA group. Mesaba pilots probably could have gotten more but it may not have been much and it would have come at some cost. In the end, we will never know.

But we do know that Mesaba Saab pilots do make more than anyone else flying the Saab. That's not saying much, I know. However it is tough to get industry leading CRJ rates when you don't have any on the property and who knows when they will arrive.

I do disagree that there were no "carrots" for the Mesaba group. The Avros going away did spook many especially those at the top, and the Big Sky issue was huge. I don't doubt that NWA/Pinnacle will try some of the same tactics. CRJ orders in doubt, some go away, new airline under the holding company, etc.

So with that said, Mesaba may have done better but I say again it was not a sell-out contract.

I hope Pinnacle pilots have the same luck to at least make big gains overall -- scope, trip guarantee, some increased pay, etc. Two things for Pinnacle pilots to remember: there is almost always a way around scope, and in this day and age just because you have it in the contract now doesn't guarantee it will stay. I can just hear "Well, yeah... you guys can have more pay but we want you to relax the scope. Of course, we will just form a new Pinnacle Holdings company anyway and spin off Summit Airlines. Ha!" (I may be wrong but I think the Pinnacle scope only protects the pilots under Pinnacle Airlines. Nothing says they couldn't form a holding company above that.)

In any event, good luck to the Pinnacle and ExpressJet pilots! Give 'em hell!

 

[JJJ]

The Saab pay, for the FO's at least, is the result of selling out the Avro FO's. The union promised that there would be seperate FO pay scales

Check out the difference between Comair 70 FO rates, and Mesaba Avro rates. Second year is about a $14/hr difference.

 

[Mel Sharples]

The Saab pay, for the FO's at least, is the result of selling out the Avro FO's. The union promised that there would be seperate FO pay scales

Check out the difference between Comair 70 FO rates, and Mesaba Avro rates. Second year is about a $14/hr difference.

It's all relative, I guess. The majority of F/O's fly the Saab. Split rates would have given the Avro F/O's a lot more but the Saab guys a lot less. Since Mesaba has mostly Saabs and they aren't going away soon (and there was a threat the Avros were) it wasn't a bad deal. They also would have needed the company to agree to allow F/O's to bid anywhere. It sounds like Mesaba management was going to go down swinging on the F/O seat lock. Should the union have gone down swinging to get it? I guess that is a matter of opinion.

I'm not saying it was ideal. By the same token, I wouldn't say it is bad or that anyone "sold out" anyone else. It was probably the best they could do under the circumstances.

Just my $.02 worth.

 

[sf3boy]

You are always going to have a specific portion of the pilot group pissed off. The union did say that a split rate was the objective. I guess that was traded away for something else. And remember, Avro FO's are the fewest in number.......And yes, Avro FO pay is absolutely atrocious. Hell, the pay is the same for a Metro and an Avro for the FO. It did not take the MEC long to figure out who the important pilot group is and who is not.

 

[Lear70]

and there were many pilots who simply did not believe a strike would occur, thus planning their finances accordingly.

That is my biggest fear of why, if for any reason, something gets passed here that is considered "concessionary". We're begging and pleading for people to start a strike fund, but I don't know how many people actually are.

Tell you what, if we pass something that really sucks by a slim margin and I hear someone I fly with say they voted "Yes" to it because they couldn't afford a strike, it'll be a long month of him or her doing nothing but running the radios and the gear...

Why would the pay on everything that has "jet" written beside it be so pathetic? I don't think that Mesaba plans on flying Saabs for long.

And that's why so many of us believe that it was the wrong decision for you. If, in 2 - 3 years, the Saabs DO go away, and you guys have a bunch of CRJ's (which is very likely), and your rates are on the bottom 1/3 of industry CRJ pay, you might look back on this and think differently about the decision.

Then again, you might not - like everyone's said, it's all relative.

 

[sf3boy]

I couldn't agree more with everything you said. I was able to save up enough for four months worth of striking. I leaned everything out as much as I could. Others maybe had different priorities.

And mark my words, the Saabs are not going to be here for long. NWA does not want to be known as the airline that uses props when everyone else uses jets.

 

[flap operator]

I voted YES to strike. I voted NO on our TA and I was prepared to strike in all aspects, except financially. There was no way I could have saved for a strike when my expenses are greater than my income. It's hard to save something you don't have right? But I was still willing to make that ultimate sacrifice.

BTW, I'm one of those avro FOs who was sacrificed for the rest of the pilot group. I know, I know 2/3 of the pilots are saab drivers. It makes sense... but it's still awful to be receiving the short end of the stick. With no upgrade in sight, no financial incentive to switch equipment (and who would with a freaking 2 year seat lock after already being seatlocked for 3) I can just sit back and endure the next 5+ years. Granted there are nice gains in our contract... but not enough for me to be 100% happy. Hence the proud NO vote.


FO

 

[Mel Sharples]

BTW, I'm one of those avro FOs who was sacrificed for the rest of the pilot group. I know, I know 2/3 of the pilots are saab drivers. It makes sense.

I agree with what you are saying. It should have been split but it only would have worked if you were allowed to bid F/O position on seniority. To have a split pay rate with seat locks would have been the most unfair of all.

But in the end, I share your pain. . .