Opinion...

[crjdude]

What's your opinion on a Father/CFI giving his daughter "loggable dual" instruction being considered a "commercial operation?"

She's a teen living at home and no money changes hands.
Looking at this from both an FAR and insurance angle.

Thanks.

crjdude

 

[JAFI]

Insurance - talk to your insurance provider.

If you are signing her log book allowing her to log duel received, IMHO you are acting as and required to follow any regulation a "normal" CFI would.

Student pilot (not acting as PIC) - you need a current medical.

Acting as a CFI (for her to meet the instructional requirements to obtain a certificate or rating) your CFI must be current.

What is your question about commercial operation? Taxes, insurance, aircraft maintenance requirements, etc.?

 

[acpilot]

Technically, flight time is compensation. I'd provide the docket number of the case where it was decided, but I can't find the book that it's in.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous...

 

[CA1900]

What's your opinion on a Father/CFI giving his daughter "loggable dual" instruction being considered a "commercial operation?"

Flight instruction, even for money, is not a "commercial operation." It does not require a commercial certificate, nor does it require anything higher than a third-class medical. (A Commercial is now a prerequisite for getting the CFI certificate, but that was not always the case.)

FAR 61.133 requires a commercial certificate for "Carrying persons or property for compensation or hire." Flight instruction does not fall under that definition.

FAR 61.23 covers the medical aspect: "(a) Operations requiring a medical certificate. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person ... (3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate ... (iv) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and acting as the pilot in command."

I taught, for money, for many years with only a third-class medical, because it's not "carrying persons or property for compensation or hire." It's teaching for hire, and is completely legal, whether or not money changes hands. I only needed a second-class if I were to do sightseeing or photo flights.

 

[CA1900]

Also, here's an FAA legal interpretation that backs up the above:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...nterpretations/data/interps/1995/Fretwell.rtf

Section 61.19(d)(1) of the FAR (14 C.F.R. Part 61, Section 19(d)(1)) states, in pertinent part, that a flight instructor certificate is effective only while the holder has a current pilot certificate and a medical certificate appropriate to the pilot privileges being exercised. (Emphasis added)

The FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for piloting the aircraft but is rather compensation for the instruction. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is exercising only the privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft. Therefore, since a certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is exercising the privileges of a private pilot, he or she only needs to hold a third class medical certificate.

Hope that helps put your mind at ease. Have fun teaching your daughter to fly!

 

[cynic]

What he said. Instruction is NOT commercial flying.

Now crash the airplane and watch the insurance company look for ANY reason to not pay. That's how they make money. By NOT paying claims.

 

[crjdude]

Good info. I'm gonna give my insurance provider a call just to cover all the bases.

Thanks

 

[acaTerry]

That letter is dated 1995, and my local FSDO says that the letter is invalid. Unless it is an official ruling, and on FAA leeterhead, they refuse to recognize it.
They go on the prerequisite CML to obtain the CFI certificate that you require a Second class here. Kind of like the TSA....local interpretation trumps. Silly.

 

[CA1900]

That letter is dated 1995, and my local FSDO says that the letter is invalid. Unless it is an official ruling, and on FAA leeterhead, they refuse to recognize it.

That is an official FAA ruling, and not only does local not trump it, local doesn't have the authority to interpret it. That's the chief counsel's job.

As for the second class, the reg itself says you need a third when instructing. No interpretations needed.

 

[acaTerry]

That is an official FAA ruling, and not only does local not trump it, local doesn't have the authority to interpret it. That's the chief counsel's job.

As for the second class, the reg itself says you need a third when instructing. No interpretations needed.

We have a particularly difficult bunch here...
Can't wait till certain ones retire.