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NJASAP Officials stand in front on Flexjet sign with their center fingers extended

realityman

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Most of what you wrote is fiction. At least for most guys there. Funny, I don't see many other FJ guys coming on here and backing that up. "work as much as you want". Bwahahaha! Sure thing! Exactly the attitude of a KR stooge. Actually, I can. But we're paid well enough I don't need to.

If it's so great there, why aren't people beating down the doors to work there? Hmmm, probably because most of what you wrote is fiction.

Any money you can make that might put you over what your counterpart at Netjets makes is based on either working a lot more days (You already work more days than us just on your base schedule) or through "performance bonuses", ie flying broken planes, or tired, or without your meals. I know how this works. "performance bonuses". LOL! Keep "performing" little monkey. KR loves a good show. A newhire's pay at Netjets doesn't go up or down based on "performance". If the plane is broken, it doesn't affect your pay at all to write it up.

Enjoy your little circus over there. The show must go on!
 

realityman

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By the way, nice try at fuzzy math. Why do you say a newhire is "likely" to only contribute 6% to his 401K? See, that's you simply inventing stuff to fit your narrative.

FACT, a newhire here can start off getting over $6000 in company matching to his 401K. A far cry over what old KR will provide. As for your top end guys, how many are actually making that most? Only a few, and the biggest KR stooges. I can see why it's important to you to send love notes to KR.

And your guesses on our out of pocket medical expenses are way off. Our deductibles are about as low as you can go without hitting zero. Are your deductibles zero? If not, I'll stick with what we have over here, thank you. Your attempt to minimize your premiums as "pennies" is laughable. It's over $2000/ year. I know you also pay several hundred for dental.

A whole lotta spin in what you write.

And the biggest point of all you miss, everything you have can now be changed at KR's whims. If he decides you're going to work 10 more days every year for the same pay, that's what you'll do. If he wants certain individuals upgraded out of seniority, that's what'll happen (sorry if it pushes you further away from that captain spot). If he decides your health premiums are going up, they're going up. If he decides to end the 401K matching, it's done (this has happened already by the way followed by three or four changes in his promises about bringing it back). If he wants to fire you for no good reason you can discern, well, bye bye (this too has happened).

Yeah, thanks, but I'll stick with my CBA, flaws and all.
 

Dooker

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#MoreFakeNews.... next
It's telling that you adopt the mantra of a serial womanizing liar who demands blind loyalty from those around him but offers none himself, who surrounds himself with flunkies and yes-men and who has yet to keep a single promise he made during his campaign.

And don't even get me started on Trump.
 

I'mBack

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I'm glad you enjoy paying for a **** contract. I'm guessing most of your brothers don't. Mark my words -- FJ figured it out and so will the NJ pilots. Rumors are out there that drones of NJ owners are leaving for FJ because of the attitude of you guys. Keep providing that excellent service R-man. Sounds like another win for FJ.

BTW - here's a post from CA1900...

I'll try to give you my perspective. I was a pilot for Netjets for over a decade, and left for the airlines because my career progression was non-existent. It took me over nine years just to move into the right seat of a slightly more comfortable airplane. I was on track to be a 15-year first officer, and when I finally upgraded, it would have been into the tiniest jet in the fleet (with no APU), most likely until at least age 60.
It was certainly a gamble moving to the bottom of a new seniority list, but after 10+ years, I was only 15% up the list at NJA, so I honestly didn't lose much ground in that respect. There's no retirement age. I believe at this point they have some 80-year-old PICs.


Quote:
Bases...I see the list of bases. Are certain jets paired by bases or are the bases just locations they'll allow you to start/end trips? I assume mostly air lining to wherever the jet is located?

Anybody can use any base on that list; you're mostly airlining to/from your base. The jets aren't really "based" anywhere, and if you don't happen to pick up one at your home airport (it happens, but rarely), you'll get an airline tickets on each end of your work week. You'll keep the frequent-flier miles (and hotel points), which is nice. There's no ability to jumpseat, so that's your only option for free flying.

Quote:
Bidding...is it based on everyone in your seat/aircraft in the company or just your base?

Company-wide. Seniority within your fleet/seat applies for vacations and schedules.

Quote:
Pay...I seem to remember that guys say you can expect to make ~10% over the published rates, does that still hold true?

More or less. For 2016, it was 9% for me. Some years was as low as 6%.

Quote:
Schedules...I get the 7/7 but what are the other schedules?

The others are the "Crew Choice" (CC) schedules, the CC52, CC60, CC72, and CC76. Those refer to how many workdays you'll work within the 4-month bid cycle. The CC72, for example, would average to 18 days a month (216/days/yr), which can go up or down by 2 days at scheduling's sole discretion, as long as the total doesn't exceed 72 days in 4 months. So you might work 16, 20, 20, and 16 days in a cycle.

The specific workdays are created as a monthly schedule bid using a preferential bid system, and scheduling will publish your schedule by the 15th of the month prior. Seniority plays very little role in the PBS, and in most cases you'll only be able to get one preference (e.g., a single day off, or want to work holidays) with any degree of success.

If you agree to 8-day tour lengths, there's a 3% pay override for the bid period.

Quote:
Can anyone get them or are they limited/have to bid for them?

There are limits. I don't have the CBA in front of me, but if memory serves, the CC52 (lowest-working) schedule is limited to 10% of the pilots in a fleet/seat, as are the schedules with a maximum of 5-day tours. Also, the schedules with 5-day and 6-day tours are limited to a smaller subset of the bases that have significant airline service and a large amount of Netjets customer flights.

Quote:
Any other insight into the operation you think would be pertinent would be appreciated. Thanks guys!

One thing you can't bid on is the particular trips, which makes sense because everything is on-demand. You never know where you'll end up, so you'll bring warm and cold weather clothing on every trip.

There are a lot of ancillary tasks in addition to the flying, including loading/unloading luggage, restocking the snacks and drinks, cleaning up after a flight, removing all the liquids every night (and replacing them in the morning) when a plane is parked in freezing weather, and so on. There's a little help from the FBOs, but for the most part it's just a two man show to keep the jet in passenger-ready condition.

When you're on duty at the airport, catered crew meals are provided. Quality varies wildly and is usually mediocre, but it's convenient and fully paid by the company in addition to per diem.

It's a fatiguing, hard job on many days. Circadian shifts are commonplace -- you may report at 10am on your first day, 4am your second, 10pm your third, and be expected to put in a 14-hour day no matter when you start. There's a fatigue policy that most pilots are very familiar with, because you'll be scheduled until you cry uncle with it.

Days are frequently augmented with hours of "hot spare" or "tentative" duty where you're trapped at the airport in case of another assignment. If your scheduled day of flying is less than 10 hours, you're all but guaranteed to have one of these assignments tacked on to bring you up to 12 hours. (More than 12 pays overtime, so that's usually where it stops if nothing comes up.)

It's not a bad job by any means, but it's a lot of work for not a lot of money, comparatively speaking. I think airlines are a far better bet from a career earnings and sanity standpoint, but they aren't for everybody. I wish your friend's son luck in his career!
 

realityman

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Bwahahaha! Ooooh, you found a post from a disgruntled ex-Netjets pilot. LOL! Yeah, there aren't any disgruntled pilots working for KR are there? I'm not even going to bother pulling up the MANY posts from those guys. It's easy enough to find them. And their criticisms are far harsher than the one you pulled up.

Hey, KR hasn't fired anyone out of seniority order recently, has he? Hard to say, maybe I'll ask your flight attendants. No wonder you love it there so much. Looks like the jobs of the junior folks are safer than those who have put in years of service there. Just make sure you're prepared to be shown the door once you've got some seniority under your belt.

"Droves" of clients leaving us coming to Flex, eh? Wait, where's that #Fakenews thing you like so much? Oh, there it is! Well, maybe you're right. You can tell it's happening by the massive growth at Flex and, oh wait.....
Funny, because I just flew a client who left Flex to come to us. Said he was tired of being told by Flex they'd have a recovery plane get him in a couple DAYS after his aircraft broke. Well, hopefully those performance bonuses will reduce the rate at which these things happen. LOL!

Not sure what your point is with all the talk of our CBA. Meh, it's a decent CBA. Perfect? No. Never said it was. But it's good to have the protections. And speaking of protections, my union dues go to far more than just a CBA. There are A LOT more things my union does for me than just work for a contract every so many years.

And while I know you enjoy poking fun at our CBA, why don't you post yours? Let me guess, because you technically don't have one anymore. You have working "conditions", which can be changed at any time for any reason or no reason at all. Everything you may have on paper is basically worthless since it can be changed with no recourse from the employees to stop it. Then you just get handed an updated piece of paper which is also basically worthless.

1.56% of my money in dues is cheap for what I get in return. Thanks for repeatedly pointing that out.
 

CALRepublic

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plenty
“Drones of Netjets owners are leaving NJ for FJ”. Some true to that. But Not because “of our attitude” But because your company is the MESA airlines of the fractional world. Undercutting everybody

You can buy into a G-450 at FJ for the same price of a CL350 at NJ

Or CL 300 at FJ for the same price of an Xcel at NJ.

That is the one and only reason a NJ owner would leave for FJ

You my friend work for MESA AIRLINES-FLEX JET

- - - Updated - - -

Already had an owner come talk to us during flight. He said he was leaving for FJ. I asked why? He said. “Price. They’re a s**t company but much cheaper. How can I pass on that”
 

DirtyBeech

The Last Starfighter
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That FO flying the line sure has a hard time staying character.
 

Enough BS

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Hopefully Flex will do better now that many disgruntled individuals will be no longer grounding airplanes in protest.

Mr. “I’m Back”, you should realize most of the people who post here don’t work for Flexjet, but they are certainly entitled to their opinion. As you know in order to get rid of the underperforming third party we had to take action and vote it out. However dealing with these “third party agitators” is easy, just ignore them. Any real discussion regarding matters at Flex won’t be done here and won’t include them. So they are happy where ever they work and we’re happy without them. Life’s good for everybody.
 

DirtyBeech

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And therein lies your conundrum. It always starts as "the real Flex talk will take place at on an approved forum with only real Flex pilots talking real Flex problems". And then someone will disagree with what's going on, voice an opinion, be disciplined or worse for it and said forum will become a ghost town of pro company shills. See yammer, disuse of.

Nope, you're in knee pad world now, and therefore pilots will come to other forums to actually converse with others with minimal fear of immediate retribution. But it's been proven in spades that even then mgt types will follow to try to reveal identities, bully and snitch on those who don't tow the line. Why, there's 2-3 mgt accounts in this thread doing that very thing. Oh, and one banned one.

Right now said accounts are studiously ignoring my posts which means collusion. Which means they're not individuals at all. After dropping post after post about not caring, this forum not mattering, not having enough time, agitators and whatnot they keep creating new accounts to come back as someone new so that they can participate.

I'll help you girls out. If you want to stop forums like this you'll allow any and all respectful dissent to occur without retribution. Now, I know that's hard as your owner is a vindictive, insecure little b, but that's how you do it. But Kenn is Kenn, and he doesn't share power or cotton to any form of criticism. So this board and it's "agitators' will persist. As will the cat and mouse game being played here.
 
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Enough BS

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Hopefully Flex will do better now that many disgruntled individuals will be no longer grounding airplanes in protest.

Mr. “I’m Back”, you should realize most of the people who post here don’t work for Flexjet, but they are certainly entitled to their opinion. As you know in order to get rid of the underperforming third party we had to take action and vote it out. However dealing with these “third party agitators” is easy, just ignore them. Any real discussion regarding matters at Flex won’t be done here and won’t include them. So they are happy where ever they work and we’re happy without them. Life’s good for everybody.
I believe me previous comments are still applicable.
 

DirtyBeech

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So go. Can’t help yourself can you?
 

I'mBack

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DB - I've given you enough clues who I am. I'm not hiding. If you can't keep up in this forum, I can only imagine how difficult it is for you in a bigger airplane. One things obvious, you don't fly the line at FJ or you would have called me out at this point. #Crickets. Keep your BS coming because I want a relationship with management. Go ahead and call them out. I'll PM them and send my thanks. Or perhaps the message boards at Spirit don't interest you and you have nothing better to do but spread more Fake News. I am openly talking on the road about this dialogue and I'm told you are a former FJ pilot that thought he was going to the airlines for something better. Keep dreaming my friend. You will eventually wake up.

Mr. Enough you are correct. These guys are nothing but a bunch of third party agitators. You are much wiser than me and I hope to fly with you someday.
 

Club ORD FO

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Looking at the Flex Vs Netjets pay scales:

Comparing the Flex PBS rate VS the Netjets Crew Choice 72 (216 days per year) on the year 4 column (that correct?)

Year 1: Flex = $355/day, $76,680/year. Netjets = $360/day, $77,853/year
Year 3: Flex = $385/day, $83,160/year. Netjets = $397/day, $85,910/year
Year 5: Flex = $421/day, $90,936/year. Netjets = $438/day, $94,800/year
Year 7: Flex = $421/day, $90,936/year. Netjets = $484/day, $104,610/year
Year 10: Flex = $436/day, $94,176/year. Netjets = $560/day, $121,076/year (a 28% difference).

* Flexjet average days worked per year is closer to 208, unless you volunteer for more.
 

DirtyBeech

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DB - I've given you enough clues who I am. I'm not hiding. If you can't keep up in this forum, I can only imagine how difficult it is for you in a bigger airplane. One things obvious, you don't fly the line at FJ or you would have called me out at this point. #Crickets. Keep your BS coming because I want a relationship with management. Go ahead and call them out. I'll PM them and send my thanks. Or perhaps the message boards at Spirit don't interest you and you have nothing better to do but spread more Fake News. I am openly talking on the road about this dialogue and I'm told you are a former FJ pilot that thought he was going to the airlines for something better. Keep dreaming my friend. You will eventually wake up.

Mr. Enough you are correct. These guys are nothing but a bunch of third party agitators. You are much wiser than me and I hope to fly with you someday.
Listen, someone who failed as many Lear checkrides as you should never try to talk down to anyone about intelligence.

I’ve never represented that I fly the line at FJ. I left a year ago. But I flew the line for a bit under 11 years. I know it more than well enough to comment intelligently. And whether I fly the line there or roast hot dawgs is irrelevant. Either I’m wrong or I’m right.

Let’s be clear. You don’t want a close relationship with management. You need a close relationship with management. You’re damaged goods with both your former coworkers and your training record. It’s “pwease Mr. Ricci take care of me” or bust for you.

I don’t really care who you have a dialogue with on the road at FJ. I haven’t met a FJ’er yet who didn’t come away disgusted after having interacted with you. I’m thankful I never had the displeasure.

You’re comment about going to the Airlines and not doing better than FJ only comes from extreme ignorance. Schedule, QOL, benefits, retirement and yes even Spirit pay is superior, and you’ll not find a single former Flex pilot at NK, AK, AA or SWA longing to come back to Flex. I field phone calls every week from another Flexer looking to leave. G CA’s to Lear FO’s. I had two of them today.

So go ahead and fire up your retarded hash tag machine, see if you can twist more numbers to try and make Flex compensation appear better and fire off another love letter to mgt. That about sums you up to a fare thee well. A ignorant liar utterly dependent on the favors of others to persist in this profession.
 
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squawk

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Feb 17, 2014
Posts
137
Hopefully Flex will do better now that many disgruntled individuals will be no longer grounding airplanes in protest.

Mr. “I’m Back”, you should realize most of the people who post here don’t work for Flexjet, but they are certainly entitled to their opinion. As you know in order to get rid of the underperforming third party we had to take action and vote it out. However dealing with these “third party agitators” is easy, just ignore them. Any real discussion regarding matters at Flex won’t be done here and won’t include them. So they are happy where ever they work and we’re happy without them. Life’s good for everybody.
Spot on.

- - - Updated - - -

And therein lies your conundrum. It always starts as "the real Flex talk will take place at on an approved forum with only real Flex pilots talking real Flex problems". And then someone will disagree with what's going on, voice an opinion, be disciplined or worse for it and said forum will become a ghost town of pro company shills. See yammer, disuse of.

Nope, you're in knee pad world now, and therefore pilots will come to other forums to actually converse with others with minimal fear of immediate retribution. But it's been proven in spades that even then mgt types will follow to try to reveal identities, bully and snitch on those who don't tow the line. Why, there's 2-3 mgt accounts in this thread doing that very thing. Oh, and one banned one.

Right now said accounts are studiously ignoring my posts which means collusion. Which means they're not individuals at all. After dropping post after post about not caring, this forum not mattering, not having enough time, agitators and whatnot they keep creating new accounts to come back as someone new so that they can participate.

I'll help you girls out. If you want to stop forums like this you'll allow any and all respectful dissent to occur without retribution. Now, I know that's hard as your owner is a vindictive, insecure little b, but that's how you do it. But Kenn is Kenn, and he doesn't share power or cotton to any form of criticism. So this board and it's "agitators' will persist. As will the cat and mouse game being played here.
Unfortunately you are probably correct.
 

I'mBack

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You should all try and have a real relationship and not one that you have to pay for. I'm sorry for you. Must feel good giving up 1.56% and then have to spend your time spreading Fake News on these boards. It's clear that none of you work for FJ other than maybe EnFuego and he's pretty much clueless what's going on. I'm pretty sure WB and AJ are going to have to come to grips over the lack of service you fine aviators provide. Just keep doing what you're doing. Congrats ahead of time for being the biggest failures in modern aviation history.
 

V1 Rotate

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You should all try and have a real relationship and not one that you have to pay for. I'm sorry for you. Must feel good giving up 1.56% and then have to spend your time spreading Fake News on these boards. It's clear that none of you work for FJ other than maybe EnFuego and he's pretty much clueless what's going on. I'm pretty sure WB and AJ are going to have to come to grips over the lack of service you fine aviators provide. Just keep doing what you're doing. Congrats ahead of time for being the biggest failures in modern aviation history.
You’ve sold your soul to a man who cares nothing for you and will drop you like a bad habit if it benefits him. Just because people support a union doesn’t dismiss the possibility of having a relationship with management. A tyrant who refuses to be told in any way, shape, or form how to run his kingdom dismisses the possibility of a relationship. [deleted by admin - don't name names], etc enable his ego. I refused to kiss anyone’s butt in order to advance my position amongst my peers, even though those weren’t the rules when I signed up in 2007. Ricci is not only a rule breaker, but a rule changer. I stepped up, did what I thought was right, and my reward was a bullseye on my back the size of Ricci’s ego. Going to Flexjet was one of the best decisions I ever made as it has given me life long friends. Unfortunately, leaving was also one of the greatest decisions I ever made. Enjoy your non-seniority utopia, under qualified new hires, and Leviathan leader.
 
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imacdog

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You should all try and have a real relationship and not one that you have to pay for. I'm sorry for you. Must feel good giving up 1.56% and then have to spend your time spreading Fake News on these boards. It's clear that none of you work for FJ other than maybe EnFuego and he's pretty much clueless what's going on. I'm pretty sure WB and AJ are going to have to come to grips over the lack of service you fine aviators provide. Just keep doing what you're doing. Congrats ahead of time for being the biggest failures in modern aviation history.
Oh I'm pretty sure my 1.5% gets more than paid back with zero premium health care, higher salary, higher retirement contribution, and solidified work rules. I'm quite happy having representation. So, it seems, are 90,000 other unionized professional pilots.
 
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