New pilot, career advice needed (long)

[VFR on Top]

Re the military: I would absolutely love to fly for the military. (In fact it's what I thought about first, before going into thoughts about a civilian career) However, I believe I missed the boat on military flying a couple of years ago when I started doing horrible in high school.

Guess again. The military could care less how you did in high school. Put your head down, work hard and do ROTC and you could be flyin' jets on Uncle Sam's dime.

Personally, however, I'd recommend getting your degree and then trying to get a pilot slot in a guard or reserve unit. My CFI did just that, and there are several guys on the board who did so as well--got the all the bennies of military pilot training and are now putting it to work at the airlines. I recommend this because nowadays the military (the Air Force, at least) requires a 10 year commitment after pilot training for guys on active duty. My CFI will be on active duty for about 3 years total for pilot training, F-16 training, and some "seasoning" time at his home guard unit. After that, he'll be grovelling for a regional job like everyone else, but with maybe 1000 TT and 400 hrs of military turbine PIC under his belt. Talk to TankerPuke or maybe some of the others will pipe up.

Closer to home, a friend of mine just interviewed for a pilot slot in the 129th Rescue Wing right there at Moffett Field, and he's still two years away from getting his degree! (Apparently the Air Guard has a deal similar to what the Army Guard has had for some time, a "commission first, graduate later" deal. My friend said if he was selected for the slot, he'd go to the ANG's "OTS", called the Academy of Military Sciences, get his butter bars, go to SUPT, and have up to five years to finish his degree.)

Never say "never"......

 

[Airline Pilot27]

V nugget:
I went to SJSU and majored on Aviation Flight Ops. It was the best bang for the buck Aviation degree. The fact that you live there is an added incentive. It really helps when you start Flight Instructing and then start out at a regional when you don't owe the huge amounts that some of the other well known schools charge. While at SJSU you can join an excellent non profit flying club called The Flying Twenties. That is the route that I took. The industry will pick up again and you want to be sure you get on with an airline as soon as it does.
Good Luck

 

[de727ups]

the degree

vnugget...you need to check out jetcareers.com

I've always been in favor of a non aviation degree if one has other passions besides flying....the airlines don't care what your degree is in. If you simply aren't interested in anything else, then by all means, an aviation degree from SJSU would be fine....just be forwarned that you may regret it someday, as I'm hearing some say they do now.

Adam J....when we preach the need for a degree in the states, it's for good reason. Things are different in Canada....you know more about it than I do. I can give you proof of the need for a degree in the USA.....how about all the degreeless guys I know that missed out on the hiring boom of the late 90's and are still at regionals or second tier freight carriers.

 

[VNugget]

VFR on Top, you're right. I haven't completely ruled it out yet. You've inspired me to go talk to a recruiter and maybe an AFROTC counselor at SJSU to find out about my options. There's a thread going on right now in the Military section, in which people say that I won't have to make any commitment unless I have a guaranteed UPT slot, which I like. (I'm not too enthusiastic looking forward to the MEPS medical, though. They say that any history of any severity of asthma is a disqualifier, and waivers are a bitch to come by.) Actually, I came close to talking to a recruiter once. Before I do it this time, I need to find my ASVAB score sheet, though. Unless they keep records they can pull up.

Anyway, among all the advice I've received, one area where none of it conflicts is to get my CFI cert as soon as possible. However, there's no way I can buy 250-300 hours of time (+ instruction) in "the next year or so" unless I start working nearly (or fully) full time and quit school, save for a class or two per semester/quarter (which... well... is an option that I haven't ruled out yet.) (And that still doesn't address how I'm gonna convince people to pay for flight lessons from some late-teens puke with a piece of paper and a couple a' hundred hours, instead of, say, one of these guys. Well, no one said this was gonna be easy, did they? )

Relating to that, one very very valid warning (from bobbysamd) is about getting farther away from "school mode" (I've read about that in other threads, too) and thus not being able to focus on schoolwork anymore. Heh, I left "school mode" (yet continuing with full-time school, on the physical level) 2+ years ago, and I know exactly what he's talking about. But it seems like if I do the whole 4-year thing and then start with aviation, I'll be way behind.

 

[bobbysamd]

Not really .....

Originally posted by VNugget Relating to that, one very very valid warning (from bobbysamd) is about getting farther away from "school mode" . . . . But it seems like if I do the whole 4-year thing and then start with aviation, I'll be way behind.

I realize that school's a drag, but, in this case, a vital drag. Hiring is slow to nonexistent right now, and it appears that it will stay that way for some time. So, it probably won't make much difference if you start flying full-time two years later, because you may have trouble finding work and/or advancing if you start sooner. In other words, you really won't be behind at all.

If you started college right away and go all the way through your B.S., you'll be something like 23. You said that you were planning to earn your ratings at Foothill College. So, in two years, you would have them done. If Foothill is a California state college, I'd bet that you could transfer every one of your credits to San Jose State. So, you'd have 60 credit hours left. So, then, why can't you go to summer school? You could finish a semester earlier and be done, completely, with college and free to concentrate on flying. Yeah, I know that summer school is a drag, especially in California, but the sacrifice now will be worth it later.

Just some food for thought.

 

[VNugget]

Whoa! Apaprently, the Flying 20's rents 152's for $45/hr wet and their CFIs charge as little as $15/hr. This means, that at 50 hours, my private would only cost $3000! (not counting monthly club dues). The only catch is that I have to transfer first.

 

[Unchilled]

Nugget, you're situation has inspired me to post. I'm in the same boat as you, graduated May 2001 and still coming to terms with the future. I'm too young and dumb to start offering advice, but I will at least explain to you my story and plans; maybe you'll get something useful out of it.

I started the first year out of school getting wasted on the weekends and not getting much accomplished. I enrolled full time at the local community college, in addition to my full time job. I was taking mostly General Ed. type stuff and had plans to transfer out to a university eventually. However, I wasn't taking my classes seriously and ended up dropping some of them, and finishing mediocre in others. I really didn't have much enthusiasm for what I was doing and began to get discouraged with school in general. Fortunately, I decided to enroll in a Private Pilot ground school in the second semester. Shortly after that, I started taking some lessons. I was able to eek out enough cash to get one or two lessons a week at the local airport. I decided aviation was the career I'd set my perverbial sights on.

This school year, I transfered to another community college in Arizona which has a part 141 flight program. Cochise College in beautiful Douglas Arizona. Once I got over living in the middle of freaking nowhere, two miles from the mexican border, I got down to business earning my PPSEL certificate, and am currently working towards higher certificates and ratings. I've also taken up a job full time and taking some classes online toward my AAS degree. No more getting wasted on the weekends, and I'm feeling like I'm getting something accomplished. When I get out of here, I plan on having my CommSEL and an associate's degree. I'll be in debt about $15,000 (not bad considering I'll have 200+ hours and a degree). Going to a public, state funded school is definitely a good option to consider. The biggest benefit is you can get federal student loans to help pay for flight traing. A HUGE plus in my case, since I don't plan on making any kind of decent living for another 6+ years.

Where I go from here is still sort of up in the air. I've decided that I will not pursuit becoming a CFI at this time, although I do plan on instructing sometime down the road. I want to get my bachelor's degree, and that's probably what I'll end up doing next. I don't have an interest in getting an aviation related degree. I like to read philosophy and likely will get a BA degree studying philosophy at the U of A in Tucson. Briefly, I had my mind made up that I would attend ERAU in Prescott. After I realized it would cost upwards of $140k to get a degree there, and talking to former students who recommended I didn't attend the program, I decided it was a bad idea.

My father was an Air Force pilot about 30 years ago before being medically DQ'd. He has always encouraged me to enlist in the military. Well, I had no desire to enlist out of High School, but I've always wanted to fly fast jets! That said, I've recently been looking into enlisting in the Arizona Air National Guard. Tucson just happens to be home of the largest flying ANG unit in the country. I'm thinking there's a very strong possibility that I will enlist when I finish here. I think it would be fun if nothing else. Also, the educational benefits are amazing. I would get free tuition at U of A, $20,000 loan repayment, up to $8,000 cash bonus, and as much as $800/month if I went to school full time. Cant beat that. Also, you get to hang around pilots if you have a job in operations. That's something that could be very valuable if I ever decide to try flying in the military.

Like I said, I can't really give any advice, but hopefully you'll get something useful out of all my rambling.

Good Luck.

One thing I wanted to add, don't get too worried about going into debt to pay for your education/training. A friend of mine I went to High School with recently took out a loan and sunk $25,000 into a giant f*cking SUV to cruise around in. He works at a grocery store and doesn't go to school. Meanwhile, I'm cruising around in my '84 Mercury with 270,000 miles on it. The moral is: don't worry about sinking money into your future because eventually it will pay off, there are much less productive things you could me wasting your money on.

 

[de727ups]

Nice plan...

It's cool you have a strong interest in an area outside aviation. Not sure where a Philosophy major could take you but at least you have a passion for it.

There was recently a post about "what do you drive" at another forum I frequent. I couldn't believe the fancy rigs many of the wannabe pilots are driving....you could easily afford a Cessna 150 for the price of a SUV.

I spent two years at ERAU Prescott and think it's wise you chose to not go there.

The only thing I can't figure out is why you don't want to be a CFI?

 

[Unchilled]

Re: Nice plan...

The only thing I can't figure out is why you don't want to be a CFI?

A few reasons for that, but mainly because I want to get my bachelor's degree out of the way. Eventually I definitely want to be an instructor. I guess I'm just afraid that if I get my CFI now and start instructing, it'll just give me more reasons to put off going out and getting my degree. Maybe once I get established at a university I'll go out and start instructing part time, but for now I'm not going to worry about it. Also, I figure my maturity level will be a little higher and I'll be an all around better pilot a few years down the road than I am now, making me a higher quality instructor.

 

[bobbysamd]

Nice plan, but some more food for thought . . . .

A few reasons for that, but mainly because I want to get my bachelor's degree out of the way. Eventually I definitely want to be an instructor. I guess I'm just afraid that if I get my CFI now and start instructing, it'll just give me more reasons to put off going out and getting my degree. Maybe once I get established at a university I'll go out and start instructing part time, but for now I'm not going to worry about it. Also, I figure my maturity level will be a little higher and I'll be an all around better pilot a few years down the road than I am now, making me a higher quality instructor.

Good rationale, but bear in mind how hard it is for non-instructor low-time pilots to find jobs. In other words, you might consider getting your CFI sooner rather than later if you want to go to work sooner rather than later. Instructing is about the only job entry-level pilots have a fair chance of getting. There are always tons of new pilots trying to get the low-time (P-F-T) banner towing jobs. There aren't as many "tons" of CFIs competing for those jobs.

Having said that, good luck with your plans.