New Emirates Policy Restricting Days Off - Watch Out

[On Your Six]

I saw these comments from Gilligan (current Emirates pilot) and Johnsonrod on another thread and I thought this topic deserved an entirely new thread for discussion.

These policy changes seem very arbitrary at times. Unfortunately, I think it reflects the lack of respect given pilots at EK in some cases. Policies seem to change on a whim. Does EK management ever consider the implications on hiring or does it simply not care? You can be promised something prior to joining EK and then things can change.

Just remember, there are no unions and the Gov't owns the airlines - you have no control. Sure, we'd all love to fly an A380 around the world some day, but at what price? I'd love to hear what Typhoonpilot and others have to say about the implications of this particular policy change. What policy will change next? That's the point, you never know... Read below (Johnsonrod question and then Gilligan response at bottom):


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonrod
I realize that the people on Pprune tend to be complete cry babies most of the time, but I just read that EK just altered some of its commutable lines (or something similar to that). Is that true? Evidently the chief pilot sent an email describing the situation and many of the Ppruners were upset (not surprising).

What's the story and does that make EK less appealing to applicants?

It is absolutely true. The company has now restricted the number of days off per month to 14 with no more than 6 in a row. Combined with the fact that according to the same chief pilot, 42 days of leave in our contract really means 30 days and that we can only take 21 days during a peak period, the chance to get home, particularly when you are from N. America or Australia has been greatly reduced. As far as commuting - the company has been very clear, they do not want people commuting. That has got to be one of the reasons for this latest initiative.

Regarding the "cry babies" on PPRUNE, I find it interesting that those who really have no idea what goes on here can chime in with such authority as to why some might not be so happy. Unfortunately, changes like those recently announced are all too common here.

As far as what this will do for recruiting, the majority of applications right now are coming from N. America. I would be interested in hearing how something like this sits with some of those considering coming here. One thing that you can be sure of, you won't be spending much time back home if you come to work for Emirates.

 

[johnsonrod]

Thanks OYS

Here is a clearer response from Gillegan (a different post):

For the folks contemplating a move to Emirates, you need to be aware that the company has just unilaterally altered our conditions of employment by announcing that pilots will now be limited to 14 days off in any month (regardless of long haul/short haul flying) and 6 days off in a row. This combined with a ruling that despite a contract that allows for 42 days of leave a year, we really are only entitled to 30 days. Given that we can only take 21 days at a time during peak times (summer/Christmas), this means that you will be lucky to get back home twice a year and one of those times, good luck because you will either have to buy a ticket or travel space available.

Speculation if rife on exactly why they are doing this but among the more plausible explanations is the need to once again increase productivity (more flying for same pay) and to discourage commuting (with more and more long haul flying, more and more pilots have been spending more and more time away from Dubai). What this does mean for you is if you come here, you better really like Dubai because you (or at least your family) is going to be spending a lot of time here.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I'd love to hear what Typhoonpilot and others have to say about the implications of this particular policy change.

In a word, disappointed. Another thought would be "stupid short sighted move that will have major adverse implications to recruiting and retention."

That said, it doesn't really affect me as I only get a maximum of 5 days off in a row and less than 14 total as an instructor. That may have been another one of the motives for the move as a lot of good pilots were not coming into the training department ( or were leaving the training department ) because they could often get 10 to 12 days off in a row as line pilots. By implementing this policy people will be less inclined to leave training and/or more inclined to join.

Five years ago when I joined Emirates it was virtually unheard of to get more than 7 days off in a row. With the advent of ultra long haul flying over the last 4 years those long strings started to become more common. First it was on the A340 and only within the last year or two on the B777.

I've talked to many people in the last few years who want to get back to North America more than 42 days per year. The ability to get a string of 10 days off in a row 3 or 4 times per year and/or add lots of days off onto a short vacation period was a crucial tipping point in making a decision to join Emirates.

As Gilligan points out in his comments, EK management due these kind of things from time to time. Usually no one thing is enough to make a guy quit, but they add up over the years and start to take a toll on morale'.



Typhoonpilot

 

[fareview]

I saw these comments from Gilligan (current Emirates pilot) and Johnsonrod on another thread and I thought this topic deserved an entirely new thread for discussion.

These policy changes seem very arbitrary at times. Unfortunately, I think it reflects the lack of respect given pilots at EK in some cases. Policies seem to change on a whim. Does EK management ever consider the implications on hiring or does it simply not care? You can be promised something prior to joining EK and then things can change.

Just remember, there are no unions and the Gov't owns the airlines - you have no control. Sure, we'd all love to fly an A380 around the world some day, but at what price? I'd love to hear what Typhoonpilot and others have to say about the implications of this particular policy change. What policy will change next? That's the point, you never know... Read below (Johnsonrod question and then Gilligan response at bottom):


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonrod
I realize that the people on Pprune tend to be complete cry babies most of the time, but I just read that EK just altered some of its commutable lines (or something similar to that). Is that true? Evidently the chief pilot sent an email describing the situation and many of the Ppruners were upset (not surprising).

What's the story and does that make EK less appealing to applicants?

It is absolutely true. The company has now restricted the number of days off per month to 14 with no more than 6 in a row. Combined with the fact that according to the same chief pilot, 42 days of leave in our contract really means 30 days and that we can only take 21 days during a peak period, the chance to get home, particularly when you are from N. America or Australia has been greatly reduced. As far as commuting - the company has been very clear, they do not want people commuting. That has got to be one of the reasons for this latest initiative.

Regarding the "cry babies" on PPRUNE, I find it interesting that those who really have no idea what goes on here can chime in with such authority as to why some might not be so happy. Unfortunately, changes like those recently announced are all too common here.

As far as what this will do for recruiting, the majority of applications right now are coming from N. America. I would be interested in hearing how something like this sits with some of those considering coming here. One thing that you can be sure of, you won't be spending much time back home if you come to work for Emirates.

Who do you fly for?

fv

 

[iluvetops]

In a word, disappointed. Another thought would be "stupid short sighted move that will have major adverse implications to recruiting and retention."

That said, it doesn't really affect me as I only get a maximum of 5 days off in a row and less than 14 total as an instructor. That may have been another one of the motives for the move as a lot of good pilots were not coming into the training department ( or were leaving the training department ) because they could often get 10 to 12 days off in a row as line pilots. By implementing this policy people will be less inclined to leave training and/or more inclined to join.

Five years ago when I joined Emirates it was virtually unheard of to get more than 7 days off in a row. With the advent of ultra long haul flying over the last 4 years those long strings started to become more common. First it was on the A340 and only within the last year or two on the B777.

I've talked to many people in the last few years who want to get back to North America more than 42 days per year. The ability to get a string of 10 days off in a row 3 or 4 times per year and/or add lots of days off onto a short vacation period was a crucial tipping point in making a decision to join Emirates.

As Gilligan points out in his comments, EK management due these kind of things from time to time. Usually no one thing is enough to make a guy quit, but they add up over the years and start to take a toll on morale'.



Typhoonpilot

Typhoonpilot,

We must have a different bidding strategy. In the old system I was still able to get a max days off up to 10 days in a stretch. If i was in my 2 tops bids, I will get 16 days off in a row without any ULH flights.

 

[filejw]

Management types want to control the crews as best they can and I'm sure its not just Emirates. With companys having a hard time hiring pilots as it is it seem so silly to put such restrictions on crews. What management needs to realize is pilots want the trips to be productive, the more time the better. I'll give a company the 90/100 hrs they want but lets do it in 10 or 11 days. And this has nothing to do with commuting I just want my time to be my own.

 

[Gillegan]

Management types want to control the crews as best they can and I'm sure its not just Emirates.

You are absolutely correct. The difference is that there are far fewer restrictions on what the "Management types" can do here than in most places.

 

[filejw]

Well you could sue them in your home counrty on your way out although it most likely wouldn't do you much good except for the thrill of seeing a 777 with big chain around the nose gear it at the gate at JFK. But that would last a few hrs at best.LOL

 

[typhoonpilot]

In a purely unscientific look at the March Rosters here is what I see for some of my friends who are line pilots on the B777:

Friend number 1 - 13 days off plus 11 days vacation. Five days off prior to vacation and 1 day off after for a total of 17 in a row. Flying a Europe trip and a JFK trip plus start another Europe trip on the 31st.

Friend number 2 - 12 days off, 2 days reserve, rest are trips and recurrent

Friend number 3 - 9 days off, 1 rest day, 6 days vacation. Three days off before vacation, 4 days off after for a total of 13 in a row. Fourteen if you add the rest day at the end of the days off.

Friend number 4 - 14 days off, 10 in a row.

Friend number 5 - 13 days off, 9 in a row.

Friend number 6 - 13 days off, 11 days vacation. Seven days off before vacation, 3 days off after for a total of 21 in a row. One JFK, One IAH trip.

Friend number 7 - 14 days off, 7 in a row.

Airbus 330/340

Friend number 1 - 14 days off, 5 in a row. 2 Beijings, 2 Zurichs, 1 day turn, 1 night turn, 1 Available Day.

Friend number 2 - 14 days off. 5 in a row, 4 in a row, 3 in a row. Four Europe trips, 1 Asia trip.

Friend number 3 - 7 days off, 8 days vacation. Two days off before and after vacation.

How this would have turned out before the roster rule change I don't know. Hopefully more people will post what they see then you can draw your own conclusions.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Sioux115]

Were those pilots all in the top bid groups or was that a cross section of all the bid groups? Thanks.