Netjets Domicile WARNING!!!! 4 wanna be's

[ghostrider64]

Well guys here is the deal. No matter how you slice it it sux for new hires. I'm sure this has been talked about here but I'm lazy and don't want to read through months of posts.

Once you accpet employment and are HIRED to work out of an assigned Domicile, YOU CAN NOT MOVE!!!! You will be stuck there until hell freezes over...

Now there are three ways this will change.

1) don't come to work here
2) once you do come to work here then aren't allowed to change domiciles, quit.
3) prepare yourselves for a fight come 2010 to get HBA for everyone.

Personally I believe that option 1 is the best choice. They need and will continue to need a lot of pilots. If people reject their offer and make it clear that they are unwilling to be trapped in CMH or where ever for the duration of their careers at NJA things will change.

Good luck with your personal decision.

 

[milehigh6080]

Now there are three ways this will change.

1) don't come to work here
. . . .
. . . .

This seems to be the prevailing advice from current Net Jets pilots. I understand that most of them are just trying to get that information out there to those who are interested in going to work at Net Jets, and I definately appreciate having as much information as possible before I make a decision.

The thing that I find amusing is, less than a year ago, there was nonstop complaining about the pay. A lot of current Net Jets guys at the time gave the same advice as I've quoted above. They basically said "expect to make low FO pay for many years and don't expect a pay raise." Still, people ignored that advice, got hired there, and then acted surprised at how small their pay checks were and then started complaining about it. How many of those guys are now giving advice to today's prospective applicants with regard to the domicile system. Why would these people expect that someone else is going to take the advice that they've ignored. I'm not flaming Ghostrider64, for all I know he's been with NetJets since day 1 and is not a member of the group that I'm referencing. My flame is more at the whole hypocrisy of those who ignored that same advice and now give it as if it's a new idea. This just happened to be the post I replied to, but I've been noticing it in a lot of posts.

I agree that you shouldn't accept employment knowing full well what the situation is and then complain about it. Every prospective applicant should come to grips with the domicile system and be ready to live with it. And if I wind up at Net Jets, it will be because I've made the decision that the domicile system works fine for me and I will be prepared to live with that forever. But anyone who was around for the contract negotiation shouldn't be surprised when a lot of newhires come in and complain about the system, it certainly wouldn't be without precedent there. The union, without question, dropped the ball on this issue. It's going to lead to a seriously divided pilot group during the next contract negotiation. It was a very shortsighted move and it's going to bite the union in the butt in 2010.

 

[notaNJApilot]

sorry for this off topic question, but i thought the contract ratified in 2005 was good for 3 years. or is it 5?

 

[realityman]

Well, I agree that this one may come back to bite us in the butt come 2010. And yes, this new contract is valid for 5 years.

But remember, the "union" is the pilots. It wasn't the leadership that dropped the ball. It was the pilot group as a whole. Some of us did. in fact, vote "no" towards our current CBA because of this reason, and for several others. But remember, this group fought long and hard, had been earning less-than-stellar wages up until that point, and many folks were hurting pretty sorely. And quite frankly, because the pay had been so low for so many years, it was the main issue, with pilot basing being one of the satellite issues. So with decent wages and benefits being offered (again, some of us felt even these fell a little short, hence one of the reasons for a "no" vote from some of us), most folks were willing to overlook the CBA's shortcomings and vote it in.

Don't criticize what you weren't there for. And also try to face the reality that no contract is perfect. We got some of what we wanted and the company got some of what they wanted. That's why it's called a "negotiation". And in 2010 we'll have another negotiation. Then maybe we'll see very little in the way of a compensation increase, but homebasing for everyone. It all depends on what the majority of the pilot group wants. After all, the pilots ARE the union.

 

[FLYLOW22]

The HBA issue will be dealt with in 2010. Most of the newbies coming on board have Union experience and know the basics. If divided, we will fail.

The company will likelt try to trade HBAs for $$. If the group stands strong we will get both. If the group acts WD then we'll get what we deserve.

Any pilot coming here now be ready for a fight in 2010. Period.

Those with HBAs will do what it takes to bargain away the DOM issue but it is what it is; an easter egg that management planted to hatch in the future. It's nothing more than a unity melting, divide and conquer tactic designed to cheap down the next contract while keeping the pilots eye off the ball.

We were good the last time around but the group will need to reach for new levels next time. I am confident we will too.

 

[DO-82 driver]

At least now we won't have to go through 4+ years of wasted negotiating before we start with a brand new "PLEDGE".

As far as new hires not being able to switch domiciles------this should not be any great news. Its has been said for quite a while that the contract did not provide for this situation. Anyone complaining now has only themselves to blame.

I ran into a few new hires a week ago in CMH and they were complaining about the very same thing. "I'm sorry guys.....some homework might have prevented this." If you got the impression from your interview that switching domiciles would be possible.....guess what...... you were mislead...remember this 4 1/2 years fromo now.

 

[cjdriver]

Typical Union Issue

The fact that the new guys get the raw deal is nothing new in unions. It's the same almost everywhere, including Delta from what I understand. Every pilot group eats it's young, because it can. Just like most management groups, get what they can out of the workforce. It's the American way. Nobody does anything for you out of the goodness of their heart, you have to take it by force.

 

[DO-82 driver]

CJ-----at least the Union sercured a higher pay for the new hires, the best medical benefits in the industry, a 401K that matches 50 cent on the dollar for the full $15,000 and just recently, the Union secured extra holiday pay for a bunch of the new hires who were originally denied it by the Company.

I wonder what the working conditions would be like for the new hires if there wasn't a Union?????

 

[cjdriver]

Exactly

My point exactly. Every group, or individual, has to negotiate from a position of strength. You can't rely on somone else's good will. Pilot's have to organize to gain that strength. I just wish the senior pilots would look out for the junior pilots more. But I understand it, it's the same mentality management has. Get what you can for your side. In the case of intra-union issues, it's the senior versus the junior pilot groups. I don't judge it, I just acknowledge that it is.

 

[Grizz]

Cj -

It's a little more murky than you make it out. The union has an obligation to negotiate the best deal possible for the current union members. Sometimes that means sacrificing a benefit for future employees in order to get the best deal for current dues paying members. Pilots that joined NetJets after November 21st had or should have had full knowledge of the CBA when they took the job.

I personally don't like the fact that they have to report to 1 of 5 domiciles to start work. I think it's short sighted and potentially a safety concern for NetJets overall. I'm just not sure how much the existing pilot force was willing to trade to make that go away.