Navy Primary IP's

Papyco

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To all you Primary IP's out there,

I and two of my friends from school are heading to P-cola for OCS on May 4 with SNA contracts. We all have over 300 hrs and our Commercial-Multi Instrument tickets. We all know that we will be put through the Accelerated syllabus once we report to our Primary Squadrons. I had the chance to talk to an F-18 pilot this weekend and he informed me that the accelerated program had its own syllabus. He also told me that each event in the accelerated syllabus covered the same info as 2 or more events in the normal syllabus. We were wondering if any of you IP's out there might be able to send me a copy of the accelerated syllabus? We have a copy of the regular Primary syllabus but would really like to know what the Accelerated syllabus looks like. Any help would be appreciated.

See you in the Fleet in a few years.

FLY NAVY!!
 

shootr

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Same syllabus, same info, same flight maueuvers as the gouge that you already have. Accelerated is not predetermined. Your IP's will decide whether or not to accelerate you so don't sweat it. No real advantage to it. The info in flight school comes fast and much of it you are not familiar with, yet. Just show up, study your butt off, and enjoy it.

Good luck!
shootr
 

Papyco

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Pat,

I originally sent my application in February of 2001 and I got a response 3 weeks later. My 2 other friends applications took about one month each. Here were my quals at the time of application:

Ratings: Commercial Multi Instrument ratings and only about 300 hrs.
GPA: 3.4, B.S. in Aeronautical Science
ATSB score: 54
PT test: 67 push-ups, 90 sit-ups and ran a 11 min. mile and a half
Letters of recommendations: One from a retired USMC Colonel who was a Test Pilot, one from a retired Navy Captain who was also a Test Pilot, and I got a letter from a active duty Army Colonel.

Overall I had a pretty competitive package. Both of the other guys who are going to OCS with me had nowhere near my GPA, PT test or ATSB scores, however all of them did have their Commercial Multi Instrument ratings. It all depends how bad the Navy needs pilots at the time your application goes in.

Good luck.

FLY NAVY!!
 

MarineKC130

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Secret Time

Here's my take on prior experience:
The first time I laid my hands on the controls of an actual aircraft was Fam-1 on takeoff roll, so take my comments from that side of the argument. Prior flight time is a huge advantage early in primary for most people. Its very stressful for most people and there is a ton of knowledge you are required to memorize so not having to worry about learning how to fly the plane is an advantage. On the flip side of that coin, there are some people with prior time who had trouble cause they were unable to adapt to a higher performance aircraft or a different way of doing things. Also, there were a very few people who had a hard time cause they knew that they had more time than their instructors and carried a chip on their shoulder about it. Don't fall into that trap. Remember that you are the student, they are the IP, and unless what they are doing or teaching is unsafe, play the game. Remember that it is a weeding out process as well as a learning process and don't get on anyones bad side. Impressions can be key.

As far as keeping your prior time quiet, use caution. Should you go into flight school spouting off about it and telling everyone? Absolutely not. But if you are asked, answer honestly and humbly. It will go a long way. Let your flying speak for itself. You are required to disclose prior time and lying about it could get you kicked out of flight school at any time.

In the long run, most people are beginning to show their natural ability, regardless of prior time by the end of Primary. Definitely by Intermediate/Advanced, the playing field is much more level because of the steepness of the learning curve and the fact that by that time you are getting into things that most civilian pilots haven't been exposed to.

In summation, be honest, be humble, be smart, and remember to enjoy it. A lot of people let the stress overwhelm them and they hate to go up because each flight could have a lasting outcome on their career. You should be having the time of your life with each flight. Enjoy and good luck.
 

codguy

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As a former Navy T-2 instructor (intermediate jet) I have to concur with the last post. Motivation, honesty, ability to learn to fly the Navy way, those are the things you and your friends need to concentrate on. And just to remind you of something, you still need to complete OCS. Don't trip over the branch at your feet while you're busy looking off in the distance. I can guarantee you that the DIs at OCS don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** about your flight contract so make sure you have the opportunity to execute it. Then you need to worry about Aviation Indoc, then you'll get the privilege of having to study for Primary. Just take one step at a time and you'll get there. Keep in mind you'll be put on the accelerated program only if your IPs think you warrant it, it's not guarenteed. I say this because you really don't have that much flight time. The average strike student had just under 300hrs by the time he gets winged, and all of it in higher performance aircraft.

Good luck to you and have fun in SERE school.
 

Roddy

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Prior Flight time

I just finished a two and half year tour as an Advanced instructor in T-45's.

One question? Have you seen the video called "Pressure Point" starring one meaning looking and mean sound DI? I knew that guy he was all of that and more. I still jump when I see the "smokey bear".

I second what the T2 and C130 guys said. Be watchful of your attitude, but also come prepared to change your outlook as well. T-34's were a breeze for me (400 prior), but moving on to the T2 and A4 was tough. I wasn't challanged all that much in T34's so I wasn't really ready for the difficulty facing me in the higher performance jet. We had a guy with lots of prior time that didn't have the easiest of times. Kicked one guy out of the program. What I have found is that the guys with a good attitude do the best. Some guys with too much time get a bad attitude and don't learn the best. The IPs don't discriminate, but rather the SNA does.

I'd like to hear how things go. Send me a PM if you want more info or more gouge. I'm excited for you guys. Don't forget you've got a long way to go before you fly. Stay focused.

Roddy
 

Papyco

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Thanks for all the info guys. Every Aviator I have ever talked to has already warned me about the whole attitude thing. I am more than willing to let the Navy teach me how to fly, after all they are the ones paying me. Flying for the Military is all I have ever wanted to do and even during my civilian training I was always wondering how the Navy went about teaching its SNA’s. My mind is as open as it can be and I am willing to learn from anyone who the Navy decides is good enough to be an IP. I have my CFI but I don’t have a big head about it. I do believe that the flight training that I received at ERAU will give me a huge advantage. However, at the same time I am not going to sit here and say that everything will be a piece of cake. I know that the Navy has totally new and more complex procedures and the T-34 systems are going to be different than any aircraft I have ever flown. However, I am prepared to study my ass off to achieve my dream of flying a F-18.

Once again thanks for all the info.

FLY NAVY
 

Roddy

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Just fly

Dude,

Just tackle what you have ahead of you right now and that is one screaming Marine DI and a lot of classroom training. F-14 should be the farthest thing from your mind right now. Concentrate on your meeting each goal as it comes. Many short term goals that will trip you up before you reach that long term goal. Remember is it the needs of the Navy that come first.

Good luck, hope you get what you want, but be open for anything.

Roddy
 

dragon

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Papyco,

I was a primary IP for over 2 years and saw a wide range of folks with prior experience. Some were better than others and one was so good we just watched for lessons.

The folks that had problems usually didn't have problems with the stick and rudder but learning the procedures the Navy way. To give you an idea we attrited a pilot with over 1100 hours who just couldn't learn it our way (by the way, I'm not saying our way is the best way, but it is the way they want their pilots to fly).

There was a post earlier recommending that you take it one step at a time and I couldn't agree more. AOCS is challenging and then you get to do several weeks of classroom training before seeing the aircraft. Don't hide your experience. If you can make them think you are a great pilot who's never flown before, great, but if they find out you've been holding back, you could have some problems. There are any number of ways of spotting a prior time pilot.


If you do disclose your flight time, there is no guarantee you'll be accelerated, your flight officer will talk with you about that and there were a bunch of our students that were having difficulties and were put back in the regular syllabus.

I was advised before I began flying for the Navy that primary is everything when it comes to getting the right airplane. Luck plays a great deal also, but if you're number one, you have a bit of control. The phrase you'll hear time and again is "The needs of the Navy".

Good Luck
 

Hugh Jorgan

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1.5 miles in 13 minutes???? you better get to the track unless you want to wash out before you even touch a plane, fat boy!!!
 
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I did a year at ERAU and promptly realized that going to college in Daytona Beach was going to kill me. So I went up to Jax Univ and got an NROTC scholarship.
Got aviation and went to primary with about 60 hours/private, 3 years old. Prior flight time helps but everybody catches up in a couple of months and the edge is gone. I wouldn't highlight myself by asking for an accelerated program, let them decide that. You'll learn that Murphy was an aviator and the day you get the accelerated program is the day you goon something up.
Don't lie about it, don't brag about it and forget every habit pattern you had flying civilian. The one time you say "well, this is how I did it in blah blah blah" is the day you get squashed. Hard.
I instructed Hornets for 3 years and the biggest advice I can give you is this: "What were you thinking/why did you do that?" are 99.9% of the time rhetorical questions... When I was a student the answer was "I don't know sir, I f*cked up, it won't happen again...".

It seems like today the first response is to pull out the excuse matrix...everything else was AFU, not you. Wrong answer. Even if it wasn't you say it was and let us correct you.
IP's talk and you get a reputation as a student pretty quickly. Don't blow your first impressions.

And lastly, have a good bar act. Don't sit inside every night studying or you'll go crazy. Grab a beer...you'll bump into some IP's and they usually will buy you a beer and extoll all the secrets of Naval Aviation. I learned most of my experience in a bar or the club listening to the old salty guys telling me what not to do or how to do it right. And I've found myself, sadly, as that crusty aviator talking to my own students telling them of my own travels.

It's a great trip. Don't spot the deck and fly the ball all the way to touchdown...
 

Sammy

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SNA's to be,
I can tell from all the posts that all of you have the right attitude! As I look back, some of my best times were in flight school. Don't be in such a hurray to get through. Yeah I know, I was the same way. But why be in a hurray to leave the most white beaches and sexy women in thongs who want to meet you. Work hard and play hard. It is the Marine Corps way (Navy way too for the most part. Ha! Ha!). Anyway, enjoy it! I wish I could go do it all over.
Sammy
 

Papyco

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Pat,

Congratulations!! Yup, I still remember how I felt when I got my phone call. I ran up and down my Dorm Floor screaming and hitting every door (they called security on me, but they never got me). What’s your OCS start date? Crazy, we’ll probably run into each other at the Flight Line down in Whitting Field. Once again, congratulations.

FLY NAVY
 

jaybird

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SWEET!!! Good luck.
 

DaveGriffin

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Congartualtions Patmack18. Best wishes and good luck to you and Papyco.

I'll drink a couple of cold ones in your honor tonight.

Fly Navy!
 

MarineKC130

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How to survive

Here's all the insight you need on how to survive OCS:
I went through Marine OCS, but its much the same. My Officer Selection Officer said, "You should be able to stand on your head for 10 weeks if you need to to get those wings." It's all a head game. Don't take anything personally. Just play the game. Every time you get discouraged, just remember your goal and never, EVER give up or allow yourself to even think about it. Go forth with that mindset and it is all but over. Also, the quickest way out of OCS (at least Marine OCS, but I'm sure Navy is the same) is to be an honor violator. I don't care if you kill your instructor, you have a much better chance of staying at OCS if you tell the truth than if you lie about it. I saw several guys get booted for lying about something that, had they fessed up, would have only been a minor trip up. Remember your goal and don't allow anything to stand in your way.

I congratulate you on your selection. Know that it isn't always the recruiting poster job, but I wouldn't change a thing for the world. Things are very screwed up in the military in many ways, but I am very grateful to have been afforded the opportunity to do the things I've done and to be a part of something greater than yourself. The govt can screw up the military all they want, but they can never take the pride and comraderie away from military members. I wish you the best and hope to see you out in the fleet in the not too distant future.
 

skywiz

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Pat

Hey PAT,

Congrats on Flight school!, I am supposed to start API sometime mid-end summer. Still waiting on my orders. You said you know places to go in P-cola? Im rotc and also have prior time (700 hour CFII) Anyway, let me know. My email is rd001h@mail.rochester.edu

Seeya,
Skywiz
 
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