Loss of US Jobs Effecting Airline Biz?

[enigma]

Just think, a few decades ago new American citizens coming off of the boats at Ellis Island were proud to clean a restroom for a paycheck. But now we give those jobs to illegal immigrants.

Sad, but one of the reasons is that Americans have gotten too "good" to do those menial jobs.

regards,
8N

 

[414Flyer]

Nafta and all the other regs is nothing but socialism forced on the american people thru trade laws. The socialist did not win in the cold war so now they are forcing american workers to compete with third world workers- that of course have lower costs- will work for less money- even less than the min. wage here. The playing field is not level- the employers have lower infrastructure and regulation costs in the third world. This will continue until it starts to affect mgmt types and the gov's ability to raise tax revenues then free trade will be restricted. Meanwhile the US will see it's manufacturing capabilities erode and manufacturing workers will have to move to Wal-mart type jobs. All of this is just more mass stupidity on the part of the elite-just as stupid as the deregulation of saving and loan industry. The world hates us no matter what we do so it is time to start looking out for ourselves.

Do you really have any idea what socialism is? NAFTA is completely opposed by most all socialists. Leftists, socialist groups, labor unions are all opposed to it.

Socialism is not about free trade. The two are pretty far apart

 

[V-1]

Where's PilotYip when you need him?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I bet he'd tell you tales of an awful lot of jet freight runs his company has made from Detroit to El Paso to pick up automotive parts produced by NAFTA-created plants in Mexico. Manufacturing jobs were lost, professional pilot positions were created. I guarantee you I'd rather be sitting on the flightdeck of a Falcon 20 than in a factory making doorknobs.

It is a curiosity what will happen to the world's superpower when they no longer know how to build anything.

One of America's strongest assets is her ability to quickly change from one path to another. There are short-term pains granted, but just look at third-world countries whose economies are based on the same products and services they've been marketing for millennia. They certainly aren't model economies, although they don't have to worry much about their jobs being shipped elsewhere.

Adaptability is key. Change or die.

 

[310]

I equate nafta w/ socialism because it is the vehicle by which the bleeding heart liberals are using to redistribute the wealth of the world-primarily from the US to low paying jobs elsewhere. This is the same bunch that does not understand that with capitalism creats a "pie" that grows- so everyone can gain wealth- but they do not understand this concept so they devise schemes to redistribute the wealth of a fixed sized "pie". This redistribution is what is happening under nafta and other free trade agreements because the US companies and employees are forced to compete with those that use slave labor-indentured labor etc. These people are not playing by the same rules as we are- their "employees" are living a life of subsistence- alot of people to a small room- not real hope of doing better- no hope of a place of their own- no hope of their own vehicle etc. So US companies and workers have to compete on a unlevel playing field. This mindset is the same as poeple like Bono (with U2) that want the west to forgive third world dept- so that we not only loose our manufacturing jobs but also give alot of our tax money away- so that the elite of the third world countries can live large but not allow the citizens to profit.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

V-1, you bring up a valid point and it is a good one as long as the parts final destination is the states.
Yes, one of the attributes of this country is our ability to change. I guess where I'm coming from is what is driving this change? I say it is not for noble reasons but rather greed. Our business and government leaders seem to sell their souls to live for the moment.
I would like to think if the next generation wants to fly either professionally or for fun that they'll live in a country where that is possible.

 

[aggiepilot87]

NAFTA is a capitalistic effort, albeit a flawed one. Flawed in that it offers unfair advantage to 3rd world mexico over the US by not equalizing the respective economic footing on which we're based. In other words, we abide by much more stringent regulations (enviro, health, safety, etc) than do the mexicans, but their goods are given near equal treatment in our country. We, through Kyoto, NAFTA, etc are *placing ourselves* in a very unfair competitive situation, period.

BTW - anyone realize that Gore had exceptions written into NAFTA exempting Tenessee whiskey from the agreement! I'm getting off the path...

The US can still defeat any country technologically/economically, if playing on an equal field. Technology, productivity, innovation - we've still got it. Look at any field of technology - the US still is on the top if not near. One example - look at gasoline prices - $1.29/gal. Corrected for inflation, they've been dropping for yeras. US petroleum extraction, transport and refining technology is the reason. But the other countries are much closer than they were 10-20 years ago.

The enemy is US! read, government regulation. I'm not saying it's grossly overdone, but in the last 10-15 years or so, it has become exceedingly burdensome. When manufacturing companies have to move their facilities overseas to increase/maintain profitability - something's wrong *here*. When politicians strike deals with countries having a far lower standard of living than the US without equalizing for this difference, you and I will loose.

Travel budgets in my industry have been cut to the bone, if not eliminated. I haven't flown commercially for work in almost 2 years. 5-10 years ago, I travelled 1-2 times/month. Back then, we bought full-fare tickets. You try that in today's business environment more than once and you may get fired for poor planning.

It's about change - accept it or get run over. The world economy is mostly to blame - good and bad. Selfish, nearsighted trade agreements and lack of tariffs on goods from undeveloped countries also aggrivate the situation. Yes - I'm an Attilla the Hun conservative, but I believe tarrifs are the answer to address the pollution spewing, child labor abusing, manufacturing countries (like Mexico and China primarily) unfairly competing with the 1st world countries.

The upside is that we are able to enjoy affordable manufactured items - $69 VCR's, $299 camcorders, $4.99 shirts, $21.99 tennis shoes.

See it how you want - the glass half full or half empty. It's the result of the global economy. And we'll all eventually be living at the same standard, if China doesn't take over the world first. They will be the next super economy/power within 20 years.

BTW - passenger flight service is a service, not a manufactured good.

happy flying

 

[ch47fe]

Don't be so huffy....

Enigma,
I am not saying America ahould have any specific business model. I'm simply stating where I think its going.

I still beleive flying is a service not a product.
Pilots provide a service that cannot be put into your pocket.

You are taking my statements as if I am saying pilots don't produce anything, not so they are the core of aviation. If management could farm out the jobs to China or a machine they would, FACT.

We are a country that survives and the best country in the world, non doubt.

The government can't protect industry from everything either. We must be forced to adapt and we are everyday.

I am in Germany now and it just confirms to me the US is the best place in the worls to live. I can't even find a laundry mat here. Possible international business opp?

I'm not advocating any business model to eliminate a future job I want either, management will do what it has to for profit and survival whether you agree with it or not.

You did encourage me to stay in IT. Don't back out of your snippy remark, it's in print. Go back and read it. That's okay there will be plenty of other persons who I will deal with on my new path into aviation who don't welcome me. It will be a long road but I will survive.

I hope you enjoy your flying job today. I'm on the way!!!
--Chris

 

[enigma]

BTW - passenger flight service is a service, not a manufactured good.

happy flying

Great post.

About terminology. We can call our industry service, or we can call it a product. ( I didn't call it a manufactured good). The terminology doesn't matter. My point was that the service/product/good couldn't be saved from one day to the next. When the seat mile is flown, it's gone for good; regardless of whether it was occupied or empty.

regards,
8N

 

[enigma]

Don't be so huffy....

Enigma,
I am not saying America ahould have any specific business model. I'm simply stating where I think its going.

I still beleive flying is a service not a product.
Pilots provide a service that cannot be put into your pocket.

You are taking my statements as if I am saying pilots don't produce anything, not so they are the core of aviation. If management could farm out the jobs to China or a machine they would, FACT.

We are a country that survives and the best country in the world, non doubt.

The government can't protect industry from everything either. We must be forced to adapt and we are everyday.

I am in Germany now and it just confirms to me the US is the best place in the worls to live. I can't even find a laundry mat here. Possible international business opp?

I'm not advocating any business model to eliminate a future job I want either, management will do what it has to for profit and survival whether you agree with it or not.

You did encourage me to stay in IT. Don't back out of your snippy remark, it's in print. Go back and read it. That's okay there will be plenty of other persons who I will deal with on my new path into aviation who don't welcome me. It will be a long road but I will survive.

I hope you enjoy your flying job today. I'm on the way!!!
--Chris

First, I may have written a snippy remark, but I didn't discourage you from entering the field. Here it is again. "Using the business model that you see as the new American standard, you'd better stay in IT, because Americans will only "manage production, marketing and distribution". Think about it. " Take that as a challenge if you like, but not discouragement.

Second, if you really want to be in this industry, you'd better grow some thicker skin. If your reaction to a post of mine, that was a little "snippy" but was otherwise intended to debate an issue, has you this defensive then this business will eat you up. Nothing personal friend. AND, I appologize for the snippyness. Sorry.

Third, What does this mean? " I hope you enjoy your flying job today. I'm on the way!!!

Fourth, We're obviously debating from different perspectives on the issue. Your last post indicates that you are speaking to the work performed by pilots. I have specifically stated that I am talking about seat miles, i.e., the product that the pilots services produce. I don't disagree with you that piloting is a service. But we pilots work for airlines that produce a product, and that product is a seat mile. Which brings us to the crux of the matter; does the American economy excell at managment, or at production. If we only excell at management, then we will eventually have our American companies managing the production of others. When that occurs, American citizen pilots will become as rare as American citizen cruise ship Captains.

It's too late to think, Later.
8N

 

[ch47fe]

What it means....

Sorry for being deceptive, with my comment.

I posted "I hope you enjoy your flying job today"

That means, When you go to work today and fly the plane, have fun. Enjoy your office in the sky. I am implying that I think your job is fun/interesting and I would like to fly too for a living soon.

"I'm on the way!!", means I am heading into the aviation world by starting some full time training.

The Comment about getting thicker skin, please. Getting dogged by a round brown 24-7 has thickened my skin enough to handle this industry. Uncle Sugar has properly equipped this troop for some standard rate BS, and attitude. A round brown is a Drill Sergeant if you didn't know. Faith in God will carry me the rest of the way.

I just wanted you to acknowledge your comment not apologize for being a 'meanie'. You know you high time guys are supposed to be nice to the newbies. Just kidding.

Maybe I will fly with you one day and be able to have a better conversation in person.

It's been interesting.

Later.