Logging PIC time at EJA

iadcommuter

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Fellow ExecJet pilots,

I have one simple question.

When can you start logging PIC time?



still confused

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patience is virtue.
 

flydog

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If you are rated in the aircraft, hold the appropriate ratings and certification for the type of operation and you are the sole manipulator of the controls you can log PIC time
 

tjsatter

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You're kidding, right?

When you upgrade to Capt. and are in fact PIC you can log it as PIC. Yeah, an argument can be made ref sole manipulator of controls and etc. but who signed for the plane? who's butt is on the line if something happens? The Capt.

Another argument is you can log anything you want anytime you want.

tj
 

jppt2000

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I don't think that's right.
Who did the company assign the aircraft to?
Who signed the release for the aircraft?
The PIC is the person who signed for the a/c.
They have ultimate responsibility for the aircraft.
If they take the fall for something that doesn't go right, they should be the only person who logs PIC.
Oddly enough, I've asked a bunch of ex-121 pilots I've flown with
the same question. There are many airlines that have both pilots typed in the same aircraft. Only one PIC though.
 

trainerjet

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Read 61.51(e). I don't think anywhere does it mention if your butt is on the line or if you signed for the aircraft. It does, however, mention if you are acting as PIC of an aircraft which is type certificated for more than one pilot. Certain Citations, for example, are type certificated for only one pilot. Therefore you can log PIC time if you are rated on the aircraft and are the sole manipulator of the controls, regardless of whether or not you are "acting as PIC". Part 91 ops, unlike Part 121/135 does not require a "designated" PIC. So if you are operating an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one pilot, I would say you are "acting as PIC" if flying from the left seat. Many companies, EJA included I believe, allow seat swapping.
 

lrdriver

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Just remember that the FAA does not just violate one pilot in a two pilot crew. Both pilots are just as responsible for the aircraft in the event that something happens especially, if you are both typed in the a/c.

If you are looking at it from a sole postion of logging time than anytime you are rated in the a/c and sole manipulator of the controls under 91 you may log pic. From a postion of the company you work for they may take it to the next level of who signed for the a/c and certified the a/c airworthy and within weight and balance.
 

jppt2000

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Part 91 ops, unlike Part 121/135 does not require a "designated" PIC. So if you are operating an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one pilot, I would say you are "acting as PIC" if flying from the left seat. Many companies, EJA included I believe, allow seat swapping.

You believe wrong.
EJA designates a PIC and SIC on every flight.
Every EJA flight has a dispatch release.
Also, the "designated" PIC as you call it, not only has to worry about the FAA, but the company as well when things don't go right.
Many times we fly Part 91, but everyone at the company is
Part 135 qualified with a PIC or SIC checkride.
These positions are bid upon and awarded, by seniority.
We also swap seats as you call it, but technically, as per the PIC's discretion. There are minimum hour requirements in our GOM that we follow.
98% of the time we do swap, but again, technically it is at the PIC's discretion and only when we ferry with no passengers.
Sweat the PIC checkride at EJA, and you get to log the time after being released as a PIC.
P.S., not to many Falcon 2000 and Citation X's are scheduled to be single-pilot authorized.
 

Toploader

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What difference does it make? You'll upgrade in a year at the most, and have approx. 200 hrs in the airplane.

As an F/O I logged my time as SIC. Now, as captain, I log it as PIC.

Simple solution.

Toploader
 

flx757

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Toploader,

The most sensible answer on this whole thread, to what was originally a simple question..
 

4fanman

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Here's another angle...

Iadcommuter...

One of the main reasons pilots are so concerned about logging PIC time is for future employment.

Most, if not all, major airlines won't even recognize your 'sole manipulator' time. They want only the time that you were designated as PIC.

If I were you, IMHO, I would just wait until you get the upgrade. If you do decide to move on from EJA, this will also make it much easier to sort out your flight time and fill out apps. Let see...I was sole manip. on all of this leg, and for 20 minutes on that leg while the capt was in the lav...

Hope this helps
4fm
 

helo to herc

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Toploader is right on in his answer
Besides, I don't think many people really want to be in a position having to explain to somebody at an interview how they obtained their PIC time....it may not be the what they want to hear!!
To me it's simple, unless you the desiganated PIC don't log PIC time. But that's only my .5 cents worth, that's how I did in the military and to each his own.
Fly 'em safe
 

iadcommuter

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Thanks fellows...

thanks to all the constructive posts.

....just wanted to find out if I can get an early start on jet pic time.
That's all.



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patience is virtue.
 
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