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Jude rules against company in Mesaba case
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BobbyBiplane
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2006
- Posts
- 244
As I said, good luck!
I was there for the demise of both Pan Am and TWA. I still have the scars.
Simply stated, unless your business (yes, your business. You work there!) expenses are less than revenues, you will go out of business.
As me, you will get the chance to start again ( and again, and again, and again ...). Unless you (and the remainer of the folks servicing legacy carriers) change you will get the chance to see the bottom of another seniority list.
Sorry, slogans and headlines do not beget security. Screwing John S. will not get you there either.
Bob
I was there for the demise of both Pan Am and TWA. I still have the scars.
Simply stated, unless your business (yes, your business. You work there!) expenses are less than revenues, you will go out of business.
As me, you will get the chance to start again ( and again, and again, and again ...). Unless you (and the remainer of the folks servicing legacy carriers) change you will get the chance to see the bottom of another seniority list.
Sorry, slogans and headlines do not beget security. Screwing John S. will not get you there either.
Bob
YourPilotFriend
YourPilotFriend
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2005
- Posts
- 1,570
I can't believe I'm saying this but here goes. Since pilots haven't taken any steps to save ths profession or prevent the slide from occuring your best bet is to take concessions grow and get out. Losing your job will only move you to another regional where you will lose your job again. This industry is shrinking to capacity with soon mergers, and the cost of fuel. Continuously going from bottom to bottom of the seniority list will be a way bigger cost than any paycut you get at Mesaba.gnx99 said:
Is it really worth it when you are still a regional FO and the guy that took the Hojet job is working at FedEX. That's a reality because pilots at the majors aren't discriminating against pilots who are PFT, Hojet, whatever. The regionals are dying due to high fuel cost if the majors hold onto scope even a 76 seat jet is worthless and that's coming sooner than you think; maybe 5 years from now. If you don't have the PIC you will find yourself out of this business.
pitotstatic
Active member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2003
- Posts
- 32
New StarTribune Article: http://www.startribune.com/535/story/441945.html
------------
Judge refuses to void Mesaba contracts
One union leader said a court's refusal to negate the agreements was "a hands-down victory." But Mesaba saw support for labor cuts.
Liz Fedor, Star Tribune
Last update: May 18, 2006 – 9:38 PM
A bankruptcy judge on Thursday denied Mesaba Airlines' motion to void its labor contracts, a decision that means the carrier and its unions must continue to try to reach negotiated contracts.
Union attorneys argued before U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Gregory Kishel that management's cost-cutting goals were excessive and not necessary to successfully restructure the regional airline in bankruptcy. But the company said that, after studying Thursday's decision, it believes the judge supports Mesaba's goal of slashing labor costs by 19.4 percent.
If Kishel had approved Mesaba's motion, the carrier would have been free to impose pay rates and work rules. Instead, Kishel denied the request in a 98-page decision.
To secure a favorable ruling, Mesaba would have had to meet a complicated set of standards set forth in bankruptcy law.
"We are very pleased. It's a hands-down victory for the unions," said David Borer, general counsel for the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA).
"It's a repudiation of everything management has done to date to try to reject the employees' contracts," he said.
"The bankruptcy process is so tilted in favor of the company that a ruling like this will give the company's negotiators a dose of reality," Borer added.
Mesaba had sought to nullify the contracts of its flight attendants, pilots and mechanics.
Tom Wychor, chairman of the Mesaba pilots union, said pilots were "breathing a sigh of relief" after getting the judge's decision.
After Mesaba attorneys read Kishel's ruling, the company released a statement with a dramatically different interpretation of the court's decision.
"The court found reasonable and necessary Mesaba's core business assumptions, including the 19.4 percent labor cost concessions over six years," the airline said.
"Judge Kishel denied Mesaba's motion only due to its failure to provide a working financial model to the unions and its modeling of workforce attrition," the company said, adding that those limited issues have been addressed or will be addressed shortly.
Management pledged to continue to seek "consensual agreements" with the three unions.
"While we're disappointed in the delay, Judge Kishel states that, if the unions do not recognize the dire financial condition of the company, Mesaba can refile the motion [to void the labor contracts] and it will be heard promptly," the airline said.
Nick Granath, an attorney for the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), said, "We are realistic that we still have a job ahead of us" in negotiating a new contract.
"We want this carrier to succeed. We want the jobs," Granath said, but added that union members and attorneys were "terribly pleased" to have won a "hard fought battle" in court.
Requested cuts are too much
Tim Evenson, president of the Mesaba AFA, said flight attendant negotiators are prepared to resume bargaining. But he stressed that they will not accept a contract that slashes wages to the point that flight attendants would be living at the poverty level and eligible for government welfare programs.
"The 19.4 percent in cuts was just asking too much of our flight attendants," Evenson said.
Mesaba filed for bankruptcy protection in October, just weeks after Northwest Airlines -- Mesaba's primary source of revenue -- entered bankruptcy. In February, Mesaba asked the court to void the labor contracts with its three largest unions. After a lengthy court hearing and three negotiating deadline extensions, Mesaba and its unions failed to reach negotiated deals.
"I am upset about the millions of dollars the company has wasted in this process," Wychor said. Both sides spent considerable amounts of money on attorneys from the Twin Cities and across the United States.
"It was a waste of precious resources that could have been used to restructure our company," Wychor said.
In a court conference Thursday, Mesaba attorney Michael Meyer told Kishel that Mesaba must move quickly to reduce its labor costs. "The cash situation is continuing to deteriorate," Meyer said.
He added that Mesaba wants to overhaul its cost structure to enhance its ability to secure new regional jets from Northwest. Mesaba's fleet has been reduced by Northwest, and the big carrier plans to remove all of the four-engine Avros now in Mesaba's fleet.
During the bankruptcy proceeding, Mesaba management told the unions that it was building a business plan on a core fleet of 49 Saab turboprop aircraft.
Also Thursday, Northwest management and negotiators for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers continued to meet. The parties were hoping to reach a tentative agreement before a Northwest bankruptcy court proceeding this morning in New York.
Liz Fedor • 612-673-7709
--------------------------------
www.startribune.com
http://www.startribune.com/535/story/441945.html
------------
Judge refuses to void Mesaba contracts
One union leader said a court's refusal to negate the agreements was "a hands-down victory." But Mesaba saw support for labor cuts.
Liz Fedor, Star Tribune
Last update: May 18, 2006 – 9:38 PM
A bankruptcy judge on Thursday denied Mesaba Airlines' motion to void its labor contracts, a decision that means the carrier and its unions must continue to try to reach negotiated contracts.
Union attorneys argued before U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Gregory Kishel that management's cost-cutting goals were excessive and not necessary to successfully restructure the regional airline in bankruptcy. But the company said that, after studying Thursday's decision, it believes the judge supports Mesaba's goal of slashing labor costs by 19.4 percent.
If Kishel had approved Mesaba's motion, the carrier would have been free to impose pay rates and work rules. Instead, Kishel denied the request in a 98-page decision.
To secure a favorable ruling, Mesaba would have had to meet a complicated set of standards set forth in bankruptcy law.
"We are very pleased. It's a hands-down victory for the unions," said David Borer, general counsel for the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA).
"It's a repudiation of everything management has done to date to try to reject the employees' contracts," he said.
"The bankruptcy process is so tilted in favor of the company that a ruling like this will give the company's negotiators a dose of reality," Borer added.
Mesaba had sought to nullify the contracts of its flight attendants, pilots and mechanics.
Tom Wychor, chairman of the Mesaba pilots union, said pilots were "breathing a sigh of relief" after getting the judge's decision.
After Mesaba attorneys read Kishel's ruling, the company released a statement with a dramatically different interpretation of the court's decision.
"The court found reasonable and necessary Mesaba's core business assumptions, including the 19.4 percent labor cost concessions over six years," the airline said.
"Judge Kishel denied Mesaba's motion only due to its failure to provide a working financial model to the unions and its modeling of workforce attrition," the company said, adding that those limited issues have been addressed or will be addressed shortly.
Management pledged to continue to seek "consensual agreements" with the three unions.
"While we're disappointed in the delay, Judge Kishel states that, if the unions do not recognize the dire financial condition of the company, Mesaba can refile the motion [to void the labor contracts] and it will be heard promptly," the airline said.
Nick Granath, an attorney for the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), said, "We are realistic that we still have a job ahead of us" in negotiating a new contract.
"We want this carrier to succeed. We want the jobs," Granath said, but added that union members and attorneys were "terribly pleased" to have won a "hard fought battle" in court.
Requested cuts are too much
Tim Evenson, president of the Mesaba AFA, said flight attendant negotiators are prepared to resume bargaining. But he stressed that they will not accept a contract that slashes wages to the point that flight attendants would be living at the poverty level and eligible for government welfare programs.
"The 19.4 percent in cuts was just asking too much of our flight attendants," Evenson said.
Mesaba filed for bankruptcy protection in October, just weeks after Northwest Airlines -- Mesaba's primary source of revenue -- entered bankruptcy. In February, Mesaba asked the court to void the labor contracts with its three largest unions. After a lengthy court hearing and three negotiating deadline extensions, Mesaba and its unions failed to reach negotiated deals.
"I am upset about the millions of dollars the company has wasted in this process," Wychor said. Both sides spent considerable amounts of money on attorneys from the Twin Cities and across the United States.
"It was a waste of precious resources that could have been used to restructure our company," Wychor said.
In a court conference Thursday, Mesaba attorney Michael Meyer told Kishel that Mesaba must move quickly to reduce its labor costs. "The cash situation is continuing to deteriorate," Meyer said.
He added that Mesaba wants to overhaul its cost structure to enhance its ability to secure new regional jets from Northwest. Mesaba's fleet has been reduced by Northwest, and the big carrier plans to remove all of the four-engine Avros now in Mesaba's fleet.
During the bankruptcy proceeding, Mesaba management told the unions that it was building a business plan on a core fleet of 49 Saab turboprop aircraft.
Also Thursday, Northwest management and negotiators for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers continued to meet. The parties were hoping to reach a tentative agreement before a Northwest bankruptcy court proceeding this morning in New York.
Liz Fedor • 612-673-7709
--------------------------------
www.startribune.com
http://www.startribune.com/535/story/441945.html
JetLinkin Park
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2004
- Posts
- 118
Oh, poor Bobby. Bitter are we old man?BobbyBiplane said:
Sounds like you've been around the block a time or two and don't want us "regional pilots" getting too comfy in our "little jets".
God forbid we actually make a living while our respective companies and their ridiculous CEO/Upper Mgmt. wage/bonus plans continue to grow exponentially. In most cases a 20% pay cut of management positions could staff the FO side of an regional airline for months.
If you think pilot wages at our respective companies is the reason for financial demise then you are a complete moron.
Last edited:
gearjockey
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2006
- Posts
- 134
yes biz 101 states revenue as to be greater than expenses to be profitable.
but when the company plays games by attributing and directing revenues to other sources...invariably there'll
be a loss.
akin to opposite of enron.
that's what management was doing...
congrats and keep up the good fight. i think you guys
moved one step up the regional ladder.
CHQ down one.
MESA perennial bottom.
but when the company plays games by attributing and directing revenues to other sources...invariably there'll
be a loss.
akin to opposite of enron.
that's what management was doing...
congrats and keep up the good fight. i think you guys
moved one step up the regional ladder.
CHQ down one.
MESA perennial bottom.
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