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In defence of SkyWest Pilots

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Jon Rivoli

I am the Devil.
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Posts
2,338
50-99 seats was approved by our pilot group shortly after Sept. 11, United had just filed Chapter 11 and Delta had just told us that we were fired, unless we could cut our costs by 20%. It was suppose to be basically an 18 month extention of our existing agreement and I for one (and I suspect a lot of others as well) figured it was a bad time to try to fight for industry leading pay and that perhaps things would be better in 18 months.

We made a mistake. We made a mistake because we didn't anticipate a three year bankruptcy at United. We didn't anticipate that the industry would still be in the crapper three years later. We didn't anticipate that Delta would file for bankrupcy last year. We didn't anticipate a lot of things, but we weren't the only ones. I think most people thought that this was just another downturn in a cyclical industry. Delta did (both pilots and management); their strategy (MGNT) was to hunker down, mortgage the farm and wait it out, just like they always did. Didn't work this time. Come to find out that this time is different; LCC's and oil $70 a barrel.

The past is history and the future ain't going to look like the past. What's it going to look like? I don't know and we didn't know three years ago either. At the time we made that concession we believed our survival was at stake. Brad Holt said, "Deal me an Ace." He has played it like a joker.

At that time we didn't have any planes larger than 50 seats and as far as I knew we weren't getting any, Scope was still intact at both United and Delta so, so what if the compay wants a 50-99 seat rate. A moot issue. There is also a rate for 100 plus seats, we don't have any of those so, so what? We're not geting any, just ask General Lee.

To catagorically demonize the SKYW pilots for a the decision we made back then requires a willful ignorance of the facts and history. The SKYW pilot group isn't catagorically different than any other pilot group. Jerry doesn't just hire stupid people. What is different at SKYW is the the experience the pilot group has with their relationship with management. ANY other pilot group in our shoes WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING!

Peace or GFYS, it's up to you. I don't care.
 
Jon Rivoli said:
50-99 seats was approved by our pilot group shortly after Sept. 11, United had just filed Chapter 11 and Delta had just told us that we were fired, unless we could cut our costs by 20%. It was suppose to be basically an 18 month extention of our existing agreement and I for one (and I suspect a lot of others as well) figured it was a bad time to try to fight for industry leading pay and that perhaps things would be better in 18 months.

We made a mistake. We made a mistake because we didn't anticipate a three year bankruptcy at United. We didn't anticipate that the industry would still be in the crapper three years later. We didn't anticipate that Delta would file for bankrupcy last year. We didn't anticipate a lot of things, but we weren't the only ones. I think most people thought that this was just another downturn in a cyclical industry. Delta did (both pilots and management); their strategy (MGNT) was to hunker down, mortgage the farm and wait it out, just like they always did. Didn't work this time. Come to find out that this time is different; LCC's and oil $70 a barrel.

The past is history and the future ain't going to look like the past. What's it going to look like? I don't know and we didn't know three years ago either. At the time we made that concession we believed our survival was at stake. Brad Holt said, "Deal me an Ace." He has played it like a joker.

At that time we didn't have any planes larger than 50 seats and as far as I knew we weren't getting any, Scope was still intact at both United and Delta so, so what if the compay wants a 50-99 seat rate. A moot issue. There is also a rate for 100 plus seats, we don't have any of those so, so what? We're not geting any, just ask General Lee.

To catagorically demonize the SKYW pilots for a the decision we made back then requires a willful ignorance of the facts and history. The SKYW pilot group isn't catagorically different than any other pilot group. Jerry doesn't just hire stupid people. What is different at SKYW is the the experience the pilot group has with their relationship with management. ANY other pilot group in our shoes WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING!

Peace or GFYS, it's up to you. I don't care.

18 months eh?
 
Jon Rivoli said:
50-99 seats was approved by our pilot group shortly after Sept. 11, United had just filed Chapter 11 and Delta had just told us that we were fired, unless we could cut our costs by 20%. It was suppose to be basically an 18 month extention of our existing agreement and I for one (and I suspect a lot of others as well) figured it was a bad time to try to fight for industry leading pay and that perhaps things would be better in 18 months.

We made a mistake. We made a mistake because we didn't anticipate a three year bankruptcy at United. We didn't anticipate that the industry would still be in the crapper three years later. We didn't anticipate that Delta would file for bankrupcy last year. We didn't anticipate a lot of things, but we weren't the only ones. I think most people thought that this was just another downturn in a cyclical industry. Delta did (both pilots and management); their strategy (MGNT) was to hunker down, mortgage the farm and wait it out, just like they always did. Didn't work this time. Come to find out that this time is different; LCC's and oil $70 a barrel.

The past is history and the future ain't going to look like the past. What's it going to look like? I don't know and we didn't know three years ago either. At the time we made that concession we believed our survival was at stake. Brad Holt said, "Deal me an Ace." He has played it like a joker.

At that time we didn't have any planes larger than 50 seats and as far as I knew we weren't getting any, Scope was still intact at both United and Delta so, so what if the compay wants a 50-99 seat rate. A moot issue. There is also a rate for 100 plus seats, we don't have any of those so, so what? We're not geting any, just ask General Lee.

To catagorically demonize the SKYW pilots for a the decision we made back then requires a willful ignorance of the facts and history. The SKYW pilot group isn't catagorically different than any other pilot group. Jerry doesn't just hire stupid people. What is different at SKYW is the the experience the pilot group has with their relationship with management. ANY other pilot group in our shoes WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING!

Peace or GFYS, it's up to you. I don't care.

Jon:
I posted this on the DL TA thread as well:

Jon:
I only keep bringing it up, becuase of a POS like CFIT who seems to "get off" on the demise of the DL pilots. Then No Delay chimes in.....Well, my patience has warn out with these types.
I guess its ok for you guys to take a "18 month" pay freeze (BTW its now April 2006, nearly 4 1/2 years later), but when the DL pilots do it, its that we have "no balls." Its not a slam at the SKY pilot group in general (te he), but towards your loudmouth spokespeople like cfit! Sorry if it comes off as offensive towards the pilot group in general (oh brother)!
Why is it when concessions happen at that person's airline, there is every justification, but when it happens at DL, its just too easy to take a cheap shot. I guess we (the DL pilot group) are the group everyone loves to hate. Its also a lot easier to blame us for their problems.
Regards,
737
 
So what can the pilot group do, if anything, to hold the company accountable to follow through with the agreement? Has there ever been a peep to management about this being unacceptable?
 
Tell that to the comair guys who just took a pay cut because of the other contract feeders pay was so much less on the 70 seaters. Or how about ASA who can't negotiate a better contract because of your crappy rates.

Justify it all you want. You are bringing down pay around the industry. Until you get some balls and stand up for yourself you will continue to get $hit on by your peers.

SS
 
Jon Rivoli said:
50-99 seats was approved by our pilot group shortly after Sept. 11, United had just filed Chapter 11 and Delta had just told us that we were fired, unless we could cut our costs by 20%. It was suppose to be basically an 18 month extention of our existing agreement and I for one (and I suspect a lot of others as well) figured it was a bad time to try to fight for industry leading pay and that perhaps things would be better in 18 months.
D@mn tasty koolaid wasn't it. Oh well upgrade was fast and job security is awesome at regional level. Hope 65/hour sounds good for a career. I just remember guys like you justifying your yes vote. The claim was a union would be on property Month 19 if nothing changed after Month 18. I along with many others laughed heartily at that load of BS. Funny how CHQ and even JetBlue pay scales followed your lead. Justify it however you want if it makes your feel better, but you guys had the spine of a jellyfish. Collectively we all pay the price when it comes to future pay for small narrowbody jets...
 
Last edited:
NO bono

MarineGrunt said:
So what can the pilot group do, if anything, to hold the company accountable to follow through with the agreement? Has there ever been a peep to management about this being unacceptable?
SAPA is too chicken shipt to bring it up in any meetings. They just have meetings, they never ever negoitate because it is not possible.

I would love to hear about SAPA having some teeth and having some will power to say look here is what we were told " Deal B-RAD his ace and you won't regret it". NOPE SAPA are like snails. They come out of their shell to get elected and then it is hibernation mode.

SAPA is told "be thankful for your job and now go have another meeting"


SAPA ACUTALLY ENDORSED THE SWEEET TA AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR FOR A MEASLEY 1.2% PAY RAISE.

After it was voted down by a landslide, rumor has it that Mr. ACE went unstable and smoked about 3 cigars and 3 packs of cigs. Uncontrollable nicky fit.

"Be thankful for your job and you have the best QOL of any regional out there"


The 50/70 rate may never change. ALPO won't be able to change it either.
It is time to decide if 2% for respect will amount to anything.

CIAO
 

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