Has 9/11 changed how you feel?

[flight-crew]

Isn't it just absolutely amazing how the airline industry went from one extreme to the other in such a short period of time!

I remember when I was finishing up college and just applying with the regionals how all the majors were hiring in record numbers and everything looked so rosy-peachy. Then 9/11 happened and things got bad.... and got worse, and worse! Look where we are now. Some majors may not even have all the furloughees back and hire new blood for 8 - 10 years.

I think we all know that wherever we are now, we are going to be there for a long time. So what changes have you all made? I have somewhat lost my "drive" or "ambition" to go to the majors that I had before. I'm not even motivated to upgrade and get my 1000 PIC Turbine anymore. What's the point, no one is hiring. I'm at the point where I just say f.uck it! Yes I am happy to have a job, but I'm just trying to enjoy life and care less and less about the airline industry.

Sorry about the somewhat negative attitude, but this current airline industry has made me feel this way.

 

[BRA]

The hype is gone, that is for sure. It is so strange to see all these 100+ seat jets around, and to think how long it will be to ever fly one. You're gonna just have to enjoy the moment. Try to "be here now" Have fun with whatever flying you are doing. Keep your eye on the news, and this message board. It will help you to make the right moves to get there. I fly with a lot of furloughed mainline people. They really seem to not care about what they fly....they care about days off and pay checks. They are happy to fly a 1900 forever if it pays well and they get days off. Some regionals do have some very attractive pay after 5-10 years. Not 200-300K, but still nice pay, may be the wife will have to work too. It will keep operah from filling her head with crap right? Keep your driving record clean! Life is too short...try and fly happy, and try and let it rub off on your co-workers. Don't let up the drive, otherwise it will just take longer! And....we have it good....be glad you are not a POW in Iraq. What a nightmare.

 

[bobbysamd]

History repeats itself

I understand how you feel, but times now almost duplicate times of thirteen years ago. The similarities are amazing.

1989 might have been the crest of that hiring boom. A recession began in 1990. In August of 1990 Mr. Hussein invaded Kuwait. I remember that day well because he did it the day before my first regional interview, at WestAir. The day of my interview there was buzz aplenty about how hiring was stopping. In January of 1991, President George Bush went after Mr. Hussein. The recession really set in following that day and hiring virtually ground to a halt (Hiring never stops completely. There is always some hiring here and there.). Eastern and Pan Am failed. Braniff II or III failed. A bunch of coincidences, probably, but maybe not.

2000 might have been the crest of that hiring boom. The recession really began in 2000; I remember how the stock market suddenly plunged. Hiring continued even into 2001, but I remember comments from people on the board asking if the good times were over. That was a real-time clue that the economy was plunging. Then, 911, which essentially accelerated and exacerbated the recession. Fast forward to now. United may well go under. U is in trouble. AA apparently is in trouble. President George Bush has gone after Mr. Hussein. Hiring has virtually ground to a halt, although there's a little hiring here, a little there.

See the similarities?

But times get better. Nobody knows for sure when, and, of course, it'll take a while for the furloughees to be recalled. And the industry might be much different, with the majors contracting out to the regionals to do more of their flying.

I'd just suggest to do the best you can to upgrade your quals. Try to move up the ladder and position yourself for better times, when they come.

PS-I reread your comments. You're in a far better position than many, who are in the outside looking in and would love to be in your shoes. The upgrade about which you're hesitant doesn't go on trees. Take it, bide your time, and, as I wrote above, position yourself for better times.

 

[mar]

I hope you're not serious.

If this is a serious posting then I may have to apologive right now because what I'm gonna say might come off as kinda harsh....

...Grow Up...

In fact I'm only responding to this post because I'm so tired of reading all of the other ones about the war. I can only stand so much chest-pounding and posturing so early in the morning.

Anyway. You don't really give a lot of information about yourself in your post so I don't really know exactly what your job is--but I'm guessing you're a couple (or three) years out of college; you're sitting in the right seat of a turbo-prop like a Saab, ATR or god-forbid a J41 or Metro.

You thought: A couple years of this and I'll get upgraded, a couple more years of that and I'll get hired by my favorite major and, wham, I'm at the majors at age 26!

Sorry your bubble got bursted.

Here's a little story: I graduated ERAU in 1990, growing ecocomic recession, Iraq invades Kuwait, USAirways had thousands on furlough for many years, no jobs anywhere. Sound familiar?

I worked as a lab technician in a toxicology lab handling thousands of blood and urine samples in a hot stuffy building with weak air-conditioning from 1990-1993 to earn money to pay rent and stay current.

I finally got a CFI job in 1993. I instructed until 1995 when I barely had 900 hours, thousands of dollars of credit card debt and no savings. I wanted a 135 job but the only one I could find was in southwest Alaska.

I moved (two suitcases) to Bethel in 1995. Ever heard of Bethel?

Let me draw you a small picture: Pilot housing right out of Tijuana. Three beds, one ratty sofa, four pilots and I'm the new guy. Water delivered by truck once a weak means you ration it like they do in the military (or in the rest of the world). When you shower you get wet, turn it off, soap up and rinse off. Toilets: Don't flush until you have to. Some neighbors didn't even have toilets--they had honeybuckets.

The work you can probably imagine. If not, then suffice to say I flew overloaded broken down airplanes to short gravel/icy strips with no weather reporting ("I can hear you! Come lower!") while working for people that I considered unfit for modern civiliation.

I did that for three years. Nearly killed myself twice in an airplane. Nearly got killed once by a passenger in an airplane. Nearly got violated I don't know how many times.

After I decided I had had enough I moved back to the world and got a civilized job engineering on a DC6. Believe me. You haven't been cold until you've pumped 1000 gals of 100LL while standing on an aluminum wing in 30kts of wind when it's 40 below.

Did I mention we load and unload that dinosaur by ourselves?

Am I sounding like Avbug yet? If so, then I'm proud because you know what? I wouldn't change a friggin thing.

I think there are a few guys on this board (Avbug, Bobbysamd, TurboS7, ASquared [if he'd post more], dogg, Singlecoil, etc) that have been around long enough to serve as a bit of a reality check to all of the young disillusioned kids wearing epaulets and ties.

The airline industry is an industry on the edge--It always has been. It's very fragile and it's very cyclic. Now that you've experienced one wave, the next one won't surprise you so much.

Still don't want to upgrade?
Still don't care about the airlines?

I'll give you some good advice and then I'll stop wagging my finger: Upgrade as soon as you can; get that 1000 PIC as soon as you can because one day when things open up you're gonna need to be ready. That window will open up, stay open for a short period of time and then close again. If you dragged your feet and just made it in by the skin of your teeth as the window was closing...you're screwed! Because when the next trough comes through they're gonna start hacking at the bottom and everyone that couldn't manage to get in at the first opening will be sacrificed to the god of 135 night-freight.

Then you'll really have a negative attitude--just like me.

Fly safe
Keep the dirty side down...
...ah nevermind...your airplane probably isn't even dirty.

[Edited to say that BRA and Bobbysamd posted while I was writing. Sorry I couldn't be as diplomatic. ]

 

[pylut]

Aint what it used to be.
Been furloughed 3 months, goin to school for career choice "B". I don't need anymore flight time bad enough to donate my time to a regional at 20% of my worth. I'll check on aviation when it looks like it's coming back together.

 

[bobbysamd]

DC-6

I moved back to the world and got a civilized job engineering on a DC6. Believe me. You haven't been cold until you've pumped 1000 gals of 100LL while standing on an aluminum wing in 30kts of wind when it's 40 below.

Did I mention we load and unload that dinosaur by ourselves?

Good post. You had it plenty tough, my friend. Some of my gripes pale in comparison. Many of my Riddle contemporaries are from your Riddle generation. I cannot imagine them enduring what you did.

Right seat in a SAAB, etc., as you mentioned would have been heaven for me until I would have upgraded. At that point I would have been as happy as a pig in sh-t.

Bet the "6" was interesting as all get-out. From the so-called "golden age" of aviation.

 

[banned username 2]

I remember when I was finishing up college and just applying with the regionals how all the majors were hiring in record numbers and everything looked so rosy-peachy.

What happened to the "I remember when I was finishing College and was applying for Flight Instructor Jobs"???

It is amazing how the "kids" of the late 90's expected to get out of college and end up in the right seat of an RJ at 300 hours...

I hate to inform you, but things haven't gotten worse, they simply returned to semi-normal from the "hiring bubble" of the late 90's... That hiring frenzy wasn't the norm, it was an anomoly...

I'm not trying to sound harsh, but it gets old hearing you guys whine about being "stuck" at your Regional when there are thousands of Pilots with a LOT more experience than you out on the street...

I didn't even burn kerosene until I was north of 2,400 hours total and 800+ multi... Don't feel bad, your world could be a lot "worse"...

 

[Iceman21]

Totally agree with you there Matt, I am absolutely happy with the postition I am in right now. Broke, quit my job to flight train since God gave me the opportunity to do it, lining myself up for that 1st instructor job. While everyone else who has thought twice about starting out is sitting on the ground to "wait out the economy".

You just gotta press on and have a little faith.

 

[WrightAvia]

Yea it is funny, what you hear somtimes

one of my skydiving buddies was telling me LAST summer that his kid was going to graduate from UND this summer and within a year or two be living the good life at a major and would be driving past my house in a masserati blowing the horn and giving me the finger.

I think the reality of the situation is probably setting in...and that his kid will actually be doing the masserati thing, but it will be GTA. Grand Theft Auto.

I have changed my view point on what my career will look like, as things do look quite dismal for the future. But on the other hand, I consider myself very fortunate to be employed in a good flying job...even though it's not the one I'd thought I'd have by now.

I'd say, if you got any full time flying job right now, you gotta count your blessings.

Good luck out there guys and gals!!!

 

[Ben Dover]

Mar,
You bring a tear to my eye. I'm amazed you can still hold a medical with the chronic pain and suffering you endured for so many years of career progression.

PS I think my grandma had a career like yours. She walked up hill in the snow both ways.