Germanwings plane crashed intentionally by F/O

[Dumb Pilot]

I think your assertion is absolutely incorrect.

When cockpit doors became hardened, the presence of another person in the cockpit was to ensure that if the remaining flight crew member became incapacitated, there would be someone on the flight deck to open the door in the case of emergency.

You can access the flight deck in case of incapacitation, you don't need a cabin attendant in there to do that..! But you do need a person there to look through the peephole if you don't have security cameras...!

All this discussion about having two people on the flight deck as a way to stop a lunatic hell bent on destruction is ridiculous to the max.

You really think that a C/A would prevent this from happening again? That is just plain stupid! As she comes in since you are already doing your Darth Vader impersonation (or at least you should be) with your O2 mask on, you just reach up and start dumping the pressure, when the bells and whistles start ringing you tell her to sit down and strap her seatbelt.., Guess what? On most narrow body A/C's you just added another blockage to the entry to the flight deck.., she provided it!
Now you start an emergency descent and bellow 10K you push your favorite rudder all the way to the wall...! Voil?! Big hole on the ground with two people on the flight deck and all....!

We need to address the real problem..., something that has been a mayor problem for years now and it is the lack of reliability of the "self reporting" system that we have on this industry.., it doesn't work for alcohol nor drug abuse, and it certainly hasn't worked for mental health issues.

If there would be a system in place where the doctor can communicate directly to the company when they ground a pilot for any reason, this would have not happened, the reporting doesn't even have to break patient confidentiality, it doesn't even have to explain the reasons to the company.

 

[pilotgolfer]

You can access the flight deck in case of incapacitation, you don't need a cabin attendant in there to do that..! But you do need a person there to look through the peephole if you don't have security cameras...!

You really think that a C/A would prevent this from happening again? That is just plain stupid! As she comes in since you are already doing your Darth Vader impersonation (or at least you should be) with your O2 mask on, you just reach up and start dumping the pressure, when the bells and whistles start ringing you tell her to sit down and strap her seatbelt.., Guess what? On most narrow body A/C's you just added another blockage to the entry to the flight deck.., she provided it!
Now you start an emergency descent and bellow 10K you push your favorite rudder all the way to the wall...! Voil?! Big hole on the ground with two people on the flight deck and all....!

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You sound like you've thought this through a little too well.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I just don't believe in "feel good, knee jerk" solutions that don't really work

 

[Flyer1015]

You can access the flight deck in case of incapacitation, you don't need a cabin attendant in there to do that..! But you do need a person there to look through the peephole if you don't have security cameras...!

All this discussion about having two people on the flight deck as a way to stop a lunatic hell bent on destruction is ridiculous to the max.

You really think that a C/A would prevent this from happening again? That is just plain stupid! As she comes in since you are already doing your Darth Vader impersonation (or at least you should be) with your O2 mask on, you just reach up and start dumping the pressure, when the bells and whistles start ringing you tell her to sit down and strap her seatbelt.., Guess what? On most narrow body A/C's you just added another blockage to the entry to the flight deck.., she provided it!
Now you start an emergency descent and bellow 10K you push your favorite rudder all the way to the wall...! Voil?! Big hole on the ground with two people on the flight deck and all....!

We need to address the real problem..., something that has been a mayor problem for years now and it is the lack of reliability of the "self reporting" system that we have on this industry.., it doesn't work for alcohol nor drug abuse, and it certainly hasn't worked for mental health issues.

If there would be a system in place where the doctor can communicate directly to the company when they ground a pilot for any reason, this would have not happened, the reporting doesn't even have to break patient confidentiality, it doesn't even have to explain the reasons to the company.

From all accounts he was insecure according to two ex-gfs. One FA and one teacher. I highly doubt he would have done this if there was a woman who was standing there with him. People with insecurities don't like someone standing there watching them. IMO he carried this out successfully because he was alone. I don't think a FA can stop pilot suicide, but if you look at historical examples: EgyptAir 990, Silk Air 185, LAM Mozambique, and now this GermanWings, in each of these cases the suicidal pilot was alone and the other taking a bathroom break when the suicidal pilot started their action.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Nonsense...! On the Fedex incident there were three other able bodied crew members on the flight deck and I don't have to remind anyone of how close this individual came to accomplish his evil task....! We are not addressing the problem, trying to find "feel good" solutions that somebody with the intent of doing harm will find very easy ways around it.

Why was this individual on the flight deck that day after he was found medically unfit? That is the problem that needs to be addressed. You brought very good points actually, Why were those pilots on those flight decks that day? In everyone of those cases the signs were ignored..., in the Egypt Air case in particular that pilot shouldn't have been flying at all..! His issues were well known by the company.

 

[tico]

Nonsense...! On the Fedex incident there were three other able bodied crew members on the flight deck and I don't have to remind anyone of how close this individual came to accomplish his evil task....! We are not addressing the problem, trying to find "feel good" solutions that somebody with the intent of doing harm will find very easy ways around it.
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Surely you are not comparing the fedex incident to the tightly controlled environment of a passenger carrier.....Had a flight attendant been in that flight deck, this would not have happened...period....as with all the other pilot suicides you are dealing with introverted cowards....who dont act outuntil they are alone...

 

[SpauldingSmails]

I think the idea here is mitigation - having another crewmember on the flightdeck in the absence of another isn't a "feel good" solution, it's not a solution, it's an additional layer that makes such an action more difficult. It's not perfect, we all know that. We mitigate risks in our business, we cannot always eliminate them, lest you'll never leave the gate. An FA in this case wouldn't need to have battled this selfish little $#it to the death, merely popped the door open.

 

[glasspilot1]

An FA in this case wouldn't need to have battled this selfish little $#it to the death, merely popped the door open.

Spaulding, that is a good analysis, pretty much how I look at it. The post 9/11 door system is well designed and I don't think they should mess with it. ALL the carriers should adopt the "always two in the cockpit" rule and be done with it. At the Flt. Attn recurrent training they'll have a little more to talk about now. (Be ready to open the door if the flying pilot goes nuts)

 

[Juniority]

Surely you are not comparing the fedex incident to the tightly controlled environment of a passenger carrier.....Had a flight attendant been in that flight deck, this would not have happened...period....as with all the other pilot suicides you are dealing with introverted cowards....who dont act outuntil they are alone...

you might want to reel in that use of the word "introverted"... I'm an introvert and I'll kick your ass.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Had a flight attendant been in that flight deck, this would not have happened...period....as with all the other pilot suicides you are dealing with introverted cowards....who dont act outuntil they are alone...

The fact that we are counting with a particular mental illness that will make a person intent on harm not go ahead with his or her plans because they migt be intimidated by a girl shows how ridiculous this line of thinkng is...! We need to address the problem and not try to find fixes that won't work! You really think that a 24 year old cabin attendant on the cockpit will prevent an individual committed on mass murder from carrying out his plans?
We need to address the problem...,
And it is the fact that the self reporting system we have worldwide doesn't work, it hasn't worked for alcohol abuse, drug abuse and it certainly hasn't worked with mental illness issues. In this particular case there was a doctor that actually grounded this individual but because of the "self reporting" system we have, this fact didn't make it to the company. Had the doctor communicated directly with the company or the local CAA about the discualification of this individual from flight duties, thus terrible event wouldn't have happened.