Frustrated

[SaabStory]

Please, please tell me this is flamebait. Anyhow, I happen to agree with Adam, "collage" (an art form in which bits of objects are pasted on a surface) is rather useless to the aspiring aviator. "College" on the other hand, well that's a different story.

 

[PositiveRate]

"Degrees show that you have the ability to see through a plan, even if it takes years. The biggest thing I got out of college wasn't who did what in 1492. Instead, it was to learn how to learn, and handle large amounts of work over a fairly short time."

Well said. Adam, there are certain things we do to prove ourselves as professionals. College is but one of these stepping stones. You might even learn a thing or two not related to flying along the way...novell idea. Airlines hire people (well-rounded, well-educated, diverse backgrounds), not the numbers in your logbook. Maybe try checking the attitude at the door and focus on enjoying the journey...just a suggestion.

 

[uwochris]

I am currently studying at a University and flying 3 times per week, working on my CPL right now. The workload is extremely heavy at times... I literally study 6+ hours every day on weekends, and about 3+ hours on weekdays. Lots of hard work but it will be worth it 1.5 years from now. The downside of this is that I often cannot spend as much time as I would like towards my flying... it kind of gets the secondary treatment, because for my program I need to maintain a certain average on the academics or you get booted. I also have to maintain an 80% average every year to keep my scholarship... hard work, yes, but worth it.

How did I get the money to be here? Well, anyone can do it! I have received enough in scholarships over the 3 past years to pay off my CPL and I still have money coming in. In Ontario (Canada) you can get an interest free government loan where the government will pay for some of your education, and you pay back 6 months after graduation. I got $8000 this way this year, along with a $3000 bursary. Perhaps you have options like this in the USA? Also try applying to various scholarships out there. There's a heck of a lot of money out there available to students... you just have to look for it! And trust me... it pays off to be a nerd

If I were in your shoes Adam, I would consider one of two options:

(1) Join the Air Force... get your flight training and degree all paid for. This will, however, require a lot of dedication and hard work for it to pay off. Good part, however, is you don't have to worry about your "money situation."

(2) Get a diploma, fly on the side like your old man suggested. After the diploma, work as a CFI or pilot. Earn some income. After enough has been saved, go back to school or complete your degree through correspondence. Doing a degree online requires, however, a lot more motivation than being at school. It can be done though.

So Adam, I think those 2 options are the best for you (assuming you want the degree and want to fly for a major). Some Regionals and Corporate airlines may not require one, so if you are absolutely against going to school, set your goals to something different. You'll still be flying, and who knows, you may even get lucky!

I do agree with some of your views though. It is pointless to get an education and spend so much money on something you hope you never have to use! It shows airlines, however, that you are highly trainable and that you can stick to a task through completion. This can also be shown with a CPL or ATPL, but since all pilots already have them, why not use another means to weed people out? The airlines will be investing much money in your training... they don't want to take the risk of hiring someone who will not be able to handle the stress. The degree is physical proof that you have survived a strict and structued learning environment.

The key to achieving success at ANYTHING is time management. It might seem impossible to manage school and flying, but it is not. If you work hard enough you can achieve whatever you want. Just don't give up.

 

[Old Crow]

Life is about doing the best one can in all aspects. Going the extra mile.

When you are in charge of your companies hiring department, it's easy to look at the statistics and see that only 10 percent of Americans have a four year degree. So if you look there for your employees, chances are that those people will give the same effort to make you money because they just want to do more than the rest.

Now go to your room and study!

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

"Put your self in my shoes and you would know how it would feel. Yes, I really want this badly but how far will I be able to go money, time, and energy wise?"

Adam, did it cross your mind that almost everyone responding to your posts have been in your shoes and figured out how to reach their goals with their own limitations? Trying to become a major airline pilot without money to get started is not a new phenomenon. Listen to what they are telling you and lose the "I don't respond well to that" attitude. I personally don't give a sh!t what you respond well to. You asked a question and it is being answered by people who have been exactly where you are. If you won't like the answer, don't ask the question.

From my view sitting in the cheap seats, I see 2 things. The first is that your family isn't made of money and second, it doesn't sound like your dad wants you to go to college. First of all, what family is made of money. Most people have to make tremendous sacrificices to go to college. There are plenty of financial aid opportunities to get you through college. All it takes is a little research. Next, I think the fact that your dad doesn't want you to go to college speaks volumes. With his attitude, I would guess that he didn't go to college himself, otherwise, he would understand the value. If that's true, it could possibly be the root of the problem...money, or lack thereof.

As far as your "a college degree doesn't make you a better pilot" argument, remember that about 85% or so of college graduates do not work in the field they got their degree in. It doesn't matter what your major is, the job market likes college degree's for positions that pay a reasonable salary. So you could say "a college degree doesn't make you a better (insert job title here)" for 85% of the jobs that require a degree. The necessity of a college degree is the way of the world, you can either get on board with that or hope that you are an exception to the rule just like I don't have to save any money because I just know that I am going to win the lottery and that will pay for everything.

Here's my advice that probably isn't worth much: Do yourself and your unborn children a favor and go to college. If you make the sacrifice now, you are putting them in a better position when they are facing the same challenges.

 

[enigma]

Adam.

If you're not whining, you're doing a good job of pretending. Life's not fair, accept it and move on. Yes, you need a four year degree, and no, it's not a waste even though it seems to be so.

I suggest that you find a junior college that offers a flight program. (not San Juan, they are too expensive) Go there and get your two year along with a Commercial ME/CFI.Then instruct full time until you get the time to go to a regional. Then take classes from any of many on-line universities. CLEP out of every class you can and you'll be finished before the majors start hiring again.


Good Luck.
8N

PS get the four year in something other than aviation

 

[bobbysamd]

To swim with or against the current?

. . . . is how I see your dilemma. And, I believe that you want to swim against.

Let me enumerate a few reasons why a four-year degree will make you a better pilot.

For one thing, a degree will make you better prepared for life. While I love an Aeronautical Science degree and believe that you can do many things with it, a degree in any major signifies a certain level of preparation, qualification and skill. You have to go to at least a few classes and do at least a little studying to earn a degree. In so doing, you receive an education and some training in how to think and reason. That will make you a better pilot, and person, to boot. It helps to be a better person if you want any kind of decent-paying job, in any industry or profession. The degree signifies a skill that you can use either in or outside of aviation. Let's say you earn a degree in English. You can learn to be a copywriter at an ad agency. You can teach English. You can be a proofreader. There are many things you can do - things you may have to do and/or fall back upon if aviation does not (1) work out for you, which is possible or (2) circumstances beyond your control force you to take a hiatus from aviation.

Another thing is the degree signifies that you can complete a training program. All airlines have training programs. They may dubious of your ability to complete such programs with only high school - although you know otherwise. However, with a degree and a decent grade-point average, you've proven it. You need good study skills to do well in college. You need good study skills to get through class at an airline.

I think another reason why airlines want college-educated people is they want well-rounded people working for them. Airlines have tried to hire a diverse group of people. They don't hire strictly Aeronautical Science majors. They hire people with philosophy degrees. They hire lawyers (J.D. degrees) who want to change careers.

Having written all of this, let's boil this down to practicality. The airlines give preference to people with college degrees, with less preference given to people with some college, and the least amount of preference to people with no college. That's just how it is. Aviation is a highly competitive world. If you want to succeed in it, you have to present the best qualifications, always. Some things over which you have no control. With education, you have control. Go take the SAT and get into college. You'll find time to fly. If you cannot concentrate on both, finish college and then concentrate on flying. You won't lose out that much if you go that route.

Good luck with college.

 

[eriknorth]

I think its pretty obvious that you need a degree. I'm in the same situation. I go to college, and I study my butt off, both college and flight training, just do I can check the box on an airline application. Here's the thing; you can be a selective hearer and listen to the people who make you feel better about what you are doing, or you can just wise up and go to school. It's not even about if YOU think that it is needed or not. A college education shows a company that you are not only well-rounded, but there are a lot of life skills that you take out of college as well. Look at it this way: you need a degree. If you think you can make it without one, have fun wasting your money and time on flight training, because I will be sitting in your seat in the cockpit.
Good Luck.
BTW it is wise to have something to fall back on in life in the event that you lose your job, medical, etc.

 

[flydog]

I have yet to interview for a flying job where they gave a rats patooty about flying skills and most airlines have gotten rid of sim evaluations.

If you want a job flying especially in this economy you need the hours, college degree and a squeaky clean background. If you have all 3 you will someday fly for a major airline unless you have the interviewing skills of a Alfred E. Neumann. Bonus points if you are ex-military, a woman or a minority.

 

[Finch]

The great debate...

You guys have pretty much covered all my sentiments.

I can remember wondering why I was in primary school! What was the point I asked myself? The big rip is that it takes 12 fookin' years to even get to the stage where you are actually allowed to think and are expected to give your input on anything. Before that, you get the best marks for spitting up what is told to you. I loved education as soon as I was out of high school.

As aircraft become more complex and require less input from the pilot, we will see a greater importance placed on people that can:
Monitor systems
GET ALONG with their co-workers (on and off the flight deck)
Have a to the minute history of where they were and what they have done since birth
Be able to absorb the vast amount of tech needed to fly these new aircraft
Have good customer service skills
Be able to sit in one spot for hours


Getting a degree is perfect training for most of the above......glad I had fun doing mine. I can't really say that the money I paid got me anything in the way of an education that was relevant, but hey what do you want for 35K? And the girls were pretty good too!

Finch