Friday Afternoon Breaking News- Dallas

[Hutchman]

You just answered it for yourself. It goes beyond corporate welfare. As a local taxpayer I'd have kittens if I was required to pay for this stupidity.

Have you ever been to SWA's HQ? Try moving it. It costs upward of $3M and 90 days to move 1 simulator and get it recertified. Do you know how much it costs to build a terminal? Look up how much it cost to build terminal D. Now lets throw in all the lawsuits to start using 35R/17L for departures. It was built with the understanding/promise that it would be used only for landings. There was supposed to by a 36L/18R on the west side, too, but Grapevine got smart and had their downtown declared a historical landmark. Played guvmint regs against themselves against DFW Airport Authority being granted eminent domeign (sp) by the state of Texas.

Flop. It's American Internet. You can have your opinion, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

Why do you have to move HQ or the traning center? I think United still operates the training center by old stapelton. Lots of HQ's are not even on airports.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Why does Southworst airlines think they deserve their own airport?????? MOVE TO DFW!!!!!!!!

The day for that arguement is long gone. The ball is and has been rolling towards repeal for a long time now. Proof? Well, when the Senators from Washington tell the mayors from Dallas and Ft. Worth to start working on a local solution because they won't like what comes out of Washington....thats a good sign that things aren't gonna stay the same....

Now, if you are the mayor and your senator comes and tells you this news...how do you handle it? Do you tell the Seantor to "buzz off" and mind their own business, and then wait for the hammer to drop from D.C.? Mind you, the mayor (you) has already been told that you will not like the D.C, solution.

Or...do you roll up your sleeves and get to work to keep D.C. out of the solution? and find a workable deal?

Tejas

 

[HalinTexas]

Why do you have to move HQ or the traning center? I think United still operates the training center by old stapelton. Lots of HQ's are not even on airports.

Is there a Stapleton Airport left? Nope.

Will there be a Dallas Love should SWA be forced to move? Yup.

SWA built a large part if not most of those facilities in the last 10-15 years.

UAL needed a new airport, because Stapleton was grotesquely inefficient. I'm sure they decided to leave their facilities where they are, because it would have cost too much money to move it. It was/is worth the it to get a new airport to work out of. That's one reason SWA doesn't want to move to DFW.

DFW built a new runway (they wanted 2) to alleviate delays. Denver built "Frederico's Folly" becuase the region needed a new airport to alleviate delays. Chicago is bulldozing most of a suberb near ORD to alleviate delays. STL did the same except they hadn't planned on TWA, now AMR, from effectively pulling out.

AMR wants SWA over at KDFW so that SWA can't be as efficient, therefore costing them money. AMR effectively "owns" KDFW airport, it's board, and the local/state politicians. They can and do pretty much what they want. Set Love free, let AMR have DFW, and build up KFTW for airline traffic.

 

[Flopgut]

You just answered it for yourself. It goes beyond corporate welfare. As a local taxpayer I'd have kittens if I was required to pay for this stupidity.

Have you ever been to SWA's HQ? Try moving it. It costs upward of $3M and 90 days to move 1 simulator and get it recertified. Do you know how much it costs to build a terminal? Look up how much it cost to build terminal D. Now lets throw in all the lawsuits to start using 35R/17L for departures. It was built with the understanding/promise that it would be used only for landings. There was supposed to by a 36L/18R on the west side, too, but Grapevine got smart and had their downtown declared a historical landmark. Played guvmint regs against themselves against DFW Airport Authority being granted eminent domeign (sp) by the state of Texas.

Flop. It's American Internet. You can have your opinion, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

The costs you cite are nothing compared to the costs of having a less than fully used DFW. Pull out the chart and examine the DFW airport diagram again. You will notice that it is a what you would call a "large" airport. It was built to absorb all Dallas AND Ft Worth airline traffic. It would work perfectly for the traffic setup you describe because that is what it was designed for. SWA decided to mock this achievement by staying at Love and in the process cornholed Ft. Worth. Ft. Worth would probably STILL pick up the tab on the expenses you tout as "insurmountable", especially since it is a solution to the problem! These costs that you would have kittens over, by the way, are nothing in the scheme of things. (ooooh, moving a simulator! Come on, your smarter than that). If you knew the whole story on this you would have a cow, and you would have the same opinion I do.

BTW, if your an angry taxpayer, refer to the article I posted earlier in this thread. Love Field is in the hole, bad. HQTS of the world's 3rd most profitable airline: broke. And for some reson, badly managed, had not raised landing fees in a long time either. Hmmm, how did that come about? THAT ought to tick you off Mr. taxpayer. THAT should help you realize SWA needs to go to DFW.

 

[arthompson]

The CAB didn't have any rights to limit intra-state commerce, which was all Southwest had at the time. It could only put restictions on flights that left the state, therefore it took a congressional act (hence the Wright Ammendment) to try and stop Southwest.

Wright was inacted after the Airline Degregulation Act, as a reaction to SWA adding service to New Orleans from Houston Hobby. Jim Wright realized new INTERSTATE service from Love would be next, so he moved to stop it before it did.

 

[Flopgut]

Is there a Stapleton Airport left? Nope.

Will there be a Dallas Love should SWA be forced to move? Yup.

SWA built a large part if not most of those facilities in the last 10-15 years.

UAL needed a new airport, because Stapleton was grotesquely inefficient. I'm sure they decided to leave their facilities where they are, because it would have cost too much money to move it. It was/is worth the it to get a new airport to work out of. That's one reason SWA doesn't want to move to DFW.

DFW built a new runway (they wanted 2) to alleviate delays. Denver built "Frederico's Folly" becuase the region needed a new airport to alleviate delays. Chicago is bulldozing most of a suberb near ORD to alleviate delays. STL did the same except they hadn't planned on TWA, now AMR, from effectively pulling out.

AMR wants SWA over at KDFW so that SWA can't be as efficient, therefore costing them money. AMR effectively "owns" KDFW airport, it's board, and the local/state politicians. They can and do pretty much what they want. Set Love free, let AMR have DFW, and build up KFTW for airline traffic.

Why do you suppose they bulldozed Stapleton? They had to, or SWA would have shown up there in an instant. It's too bad that infrastructure has to be destroyed, but the alternative for everyone OTHER than SWA demands it. We wouldn't be having this conversation if they had buldozed Love, would we? If they could build DFW again do you think they would hesitate to require Love to be closed? AMR wants SWA at DFW for fair competition.

 

[J3CubCapt]

YES! Everyone just wants a clean deal. I'm sure that sounds outlandish and perposterously "FAIR" (an absurd concept for you SWA types to grasp) but that would make everyone happy.

Fair...?

Do you actually buy tickets to fly in/out of DFW? My wife flys AA out of DFW for business, because she can not fly SWA from DAL because of the Wrong Admen.

Her sofwate clients book last minute meetings, which means she has to buy walkup fairs from AA.
Last week her ticket R/T to LAX was $1900.00. Let's see, SWA's last minute, highest price, would be around $700.00.

I know, I'm a outlandish, absurd, perposterous SWA type, but that does NOT sounds "FAIR."

Have you ever heard of the SWA effect.

Now saving $1200.00, now "that would make everyone happy".

Maybe people will soon understand how badly they have been getting ripped off at DFW.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Why do you suppose they bulldozed Stapleton? They had to, or SWA would have shown up there in an instant.

If they could build DFW again do you think they would hesitate to require Love to be closed? AMR wants SWA at DFW for fair competition.

Airlines have never suffered under a "fair" system of competition. Each and every one has tried to exploit some advantage. Some have been fined by the government for these practices and moved in/lost money to kill off competition.

In SWA's case they did it all while making money with a whole new way of scheduling. No hub and spoke (I know, I preach to the choir). SWA's competition was and is often the car. If the passenger wants the legacy product they will go out and purchase it. If they want the fall of Siagon boarding process to ride in the clown car, they will go for that. It's that simple.

The legacy hub and spoke system has NEVER been the most cost effective way to fly. And they prove that they don't care about passenger sticker shock when they jack up fares for last minute travel or thin markets. You may find this hard to believe but I meet passengers commuting that fly SWA becuase they are cheap and hate getting gouged. People who can afford expensive travel almost monthly and appreciate good customer service. Some like SWA customer service. Some think it could be better but like the price and "fair" way they are treated. A consistency of product that meets their minimum standard. They are a step below the NetJet crowd. The legacies need to learn customer service starts with the ticket pricing system. Where do the legacies fit in all this????

So, going forward, which way of running a business do you think will prove most durable? While some legacy airlines may have periods of advantage over others and have growth spurts I think it is smartest to go with an airline that has a permanent advantage and has a good chance of continuing to exploit it.



You can argue about this Love Field vs. DFW (or whatever you want to call it) but it is only a small piece of the puzzle now. You want what is fair? It's not about fair. It's about what is accepted and encouraged in our economy.

 

[aa73]

Very well said, FlyBoeing.

I'll add that I don't really care what hapens because it's out of our control. But I think everyone knows that the WA is pretty much history. So now we get to add a brand new chapter to "Hard Landing 2". I hope AA and SWA both prosper.

 

[GuppyWN]

.......... and there you have it.

People don't want a free DAL because they KNOW what the outcome will be. Flopgut has, I take it, has his career expectations lowered over the past few years and he wants someone to blame it on. SWA is an easy target. What you need to understand is that the customer makes the choice. SWA is just giving the customer options.

Gup