Freight Hauling jobs...

Vandal

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Have heard this is a low time alternative to CFI. Are these just jobs you luck into with the right connections? Or are their companies that accept applications that are known about. Thanks guys.
 

Cardinal

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90% of the them will definitely not be low-time positions, as you have to meet the IFR PIC requirements of Part 135, ie 1200 hrs tt and some other specific experience levels. Those that legally could hire a low timer are first officer positions on aircraft that legitimately need them, ie B1900, F27, etc. Mountain Air Cargo operates the Fokker, Alpine operates the Beech (if you wish to be a pilot whore). AirNet Systems also has an SIC program, but the legitimacy of the time logged could be debated.
 

flydog

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Airnet will hire people that do not meet the minimums and let them sit SIC until they meet the requirements. The tough part about the 135 IFR requirements is the 50 hrs of actual IFR

www.airnet.com
 

Vandal

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The Airnet job looks interesting...you say the time is questionable though?
 

Bluto

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Flydog,
I think you misread the reg. For 135 Instrument PIC. You need 75 hours of instrument. 50 of which must be in actual flight, meaning sim time doesn't count towards the 50. Hood time does.
 

starchkr

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vandal,


The airnet SIC time IS NOT questionable at all. There are plenty of people that might think so, but it isn't. Op's specs and an FAA explanation directed specifically to us explains it is all perfectly legal.
 

GoingHot

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The reg. breaks out the 135 minimums like this:

1200 Total
500 Cross Country
100 Night
75 Instrument
50 Instrument (Actual Flight) -- Includes Hood

This is what you need to qualify as a FAR 135 PIC. Some 135 Operators have an SIC program, but for most, you need to have the numbers. Some on this board trash SIC programs, but some, like Airnet are well respected and sanctioned by the FAA.

So, you could have the 135 minimums without having ever been in a cloud. If they required 50 hours of actual weather, people who do all of their flying in the Southwest would never make the minimums. Pilots alway worry about the 50 instrument, but I think most reach that before they get even close to the 500 cross country.

A year ago when the Regional Airlines were hiring low time guys, no one cared about 135 minimums, because the Regionals were more interested in your interview skills than your time on the gauges. And you could get an Airline interview long before you reached minimums for a 135 job.
 

Fr8Dog

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Someone said something about Alpine and the SIC program for the 1900. Alpine has FO's in the Beech 1900 and Beech 99. Alpine's program is a pay for training one where you pay x amount of 1000's of dollars to get 250 hours as an SIC in either Beech, so you could say it is PFT. There really aren't any low time freight jobs out there where you will fly PIC. The low time ones are where you get hired with 1200TT and fly a Lance, Charokee Six, or Cessna 206/207 for a couple hundred hours so you can then move into a Cessna 402, 310, or Beech Barron then up to a Beech 99 or Metro.
 

flyboy

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Good luck getting on with AirNet right now with low time. Too many guys and gals are out of work with a lot of time.
 

Cardinal

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Just to sum up the topic, accept this - There is now way to beat the system. Really there isn't. You might get lucky, of course, but there just is no reliable end-run around those first thousand hours. I spent the past 5 years trying to figure out a way to beat the system. And ya know what? I surrendered. Now I'm a CFI, and beleive me, I didn't get into it for the girls or the money. I'm already starting to sound like an old codger, but at some point we all have to get used to the concept of paying our dues.
 

Vandal

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Yeah it certainly sounds that way doesn't it...doesn't hurt to ask though. Thanks guys. Just hope I do well in the next UPT board ;)
 

Huck

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There's always jump planes. Beats instructing!
 

c172

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What are jump planes

Huck What are jump planes?
 

jaybird

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jmac where did you get your info from? I know a guy who was just called for an interview and he had less than 1200.
 

FalconPilot69

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Jump Plane

Jump planes are the skydive operators. You will get to log about 3 to 4 tenths of an hour each flight, however, it is not cross country time which is very much needed. I was one of the fortunate ones who caught several breaks in aviation as a low time pilot before 9/11. I also made the mistake, at least in my own personal opinion, of not getting my instructor ratings. I did however build over 600 hours in one year flying banners in the D/FW area. If you look to do that, I suggest either the operators in New Jersey or Florida. There, you should be able to build your cross county time as well. Do yourself a favor though, get you instructor tickets! :D
 

starchkr

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Try GTA Air in Dallas. They are a 135 co. that will hire VFR 135 guys with 500 hours, but the lifestlye STINKS there. I have had a few coversations with those VFR guys and they talked about 14 hour duty days with only a couple of hours of flying, plus having to do a lot of company paperwork while sitting at the airport during IFR conditions. One huge drawback is that they DO NOT get paid...well at least when i talked to the VFR guys they didn't about a year ago, and knowing a litle about the company i am sure they still do not. It is basically a work for free job, however it is NOT PFT because you neither pay nor get paid, so maybe it is a BFT(Blood for Training) type job. OK, so my joke skills have seemed to slip on that one! However, this job will at least get you hours in a way other than instructing, but instructing is kind of fun... except for those days when you are so happy to be alive youhave to kiss the ground upon returning to the airport.

Good luck
 

Timebuilder

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Here's another insight on AirNet:

I spoke with hiring honcho Bob at Airnet, and they put a LARGE and definite value on having instructed. Get that CFI and use it.

Secondly, recency of experience is a big consideration. Thirty, ninety days, six month totals.

Thirdly, I filled out the online app some time ago, and I'm still waiting for the call. This probably indicates that there are boucoups pilots in the hiring pool.

I think the majority opinion still recommends flight instruction for experience in preparation for a job.
 

bobbysamd

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CFI Experience

I speak from prejudice because instructing is all I ever did in professional aviation, but it's unbelieveable how much you will learn about aviation from instructing. The old saying is true, that the best way to learn a subject is to teach it. Another, practical consideration is the written exams that airlines give during the interview process. I know people who fretted over these exams. I never understood why because these exams tested basic instructional knowledge that you would teach your students.

One more consideration is the CFI is a credential that represents a certain and particular benchmark of aviation knowledge. Recruiters like to see a CFI for that reason.

Good luck with your plans.
 

Freight Dog

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Well, to say it's easy to get a break... well... no it's not.

But to say that one has to do a lot of homework to get a break, oh hell yeah!!! I got my first VFR 135 job at 500 hours flying air tours, first cargo job at 830 hours flying VFR 135 in C210, got my first cargo twin job with 1000 total and 8 MULTI as PIC in a Seneca. Got up to 1200 hours, went to Ameriflight for 9 months and now at a regional. No CFI ticket, no money, and all kinds of desire and WILL to move up.

You really have to hustle. Take a folder-ful of your resumes, and walk into different places. Talk to people. Don't be afraid of rejection. If you have 500 hours total time (no way around that per FAR's), take a stack of your resumes to Vegas, and go say hi to every operator at every airport in the Greater Las Vegas area. Always be on the lookout for that next job, always be informed of what's going on.

Good luck!
 

1900cpt

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Have to agree with what the other posts say. As for the CFI route...you will learn more than you ever thought possible. I also think Freight Dog has the right idea. Start beating down some doors....the worst they can say is no.....well atleast now you have a definite answer. May not be the one you want to hear but you might be surprised also.

The people that turn you down might also be able to point you in the right direction too. This industry is all about networking. The more people you know the better off you are. Some day down the road that person may be able to help you get on somewhere.

This should also be something you do to. I have helped several of my friends land some jobs. People helped me and i try to help others too. This is not to say that you dont need any experience...you do. It is almost a catch 22....people want you to have experience, but wont hire you to get the experience.

Also with the freight...depending on what a/c and company it is you will most likely be doing single pilot. That in itself can give you gray hair. You will learn a lot and you better learn it quick. I know i scared myself several times while doing single pilot seneca charter. It will make you a good pilot.

Thats my take on that,

1900cpt:p
 
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