Freedom Airlines

[NEDude]

Reply to Publisher

Publisher

You are correct that the original reason for starting Freedom was to get around the scope restriction placed by USAirways. However when the USAirways MEC dropped the objection to Mesa operating the CRJ 700 and 900's as America West Express, Mesa CEO Johnathan Orenstien stated publicly that he still was going forth with Freedom because he felt that ALPA presented unreasonable salary proposals for Mesa pilots operating them. He did not like what ALPA offered so he decided to keep Freedom afloat so he didn't have to deal with them.

Go visit the Freemesaairlines forum on Yahoo groups. There is a lot of good discussion there about Freedom and Johnathan Orenstien posts several times per day. And yes we do know it is him because he mentions the site quite often in his weekly recorded telephone update. It is a good place for any current or furloughed Mesa people to see what is going on.

 

[publisher]

thanks

Thanks for the information. I still think what I said holds true. His problems were as stated, with or without the MEC relaxing their position.
Like th regional Air Partners which he founded, he was not willing to go along with the crowd if it was not serving his interest. He would like to have an entity not dependant on a major's restrictions and weighed down by a union whose loyalty is not only not to the pilots he is dealing with but to someone else.
Sometimes the employer is in the same boat as the rjdc or other pilot groups who find the associations, unions, or government is not serving them, but in the end loyal to someone else.

 

[trainerjet]

Publsiher sees things from the management point of view, and will side with that opinion, regardless of what arguments are presented.

The RJDC supporters will see that side of the argument. The mainline pilots will see things from that point of view.

I don't believe anyone will be convinced to change their position by what is posted on this board. But it does, at times, keep the conversation lively.

The makeup of the industry and the issues it presents are different today than 10 years ago, and will be different still 10 years from now. FlyDeltasJets made a very good point in a post on a similar thread. That whatever happens, whomever "wins", I hope we can all look back on these events as something that helped all pilots. And I second his observation that I would rather be wrong than harm the profession.

 

[publisher]

right

You are certainly right from the standpoint that I see things from a different point of view. I like to think that I see it from a business point of view as much as a management point of view. They are not necessarily the same.

As stated before, businesses do not exist to employ, nor are there any inherent right to be employed. In Florida and many states, one is employed "at will".

There is a general feeling on these boards that the decisions made are merely designed to shaft the pilot employees. In the airlines that I have been around that certainly was never the objective or even a significant factor in decisions to take one action or another.

We all tend to look at situations from our own personal perspective and there is no problem with that. Frankly, I do not know of or have ever seen management that set out to lose money or shaft the people that one needs to achieve the business plan.

I do not know why this business seems to breed contemp although I believe that some of it comes from the nature of the flight crews job is one where they check in and fly. There is little interaction with a wide spectrum of people within the company.

This profession will only be harmed by immaturity and failure to see the perspective of others. I know that the awe and respect is somewhat diminished since I came up for pilots, flight attendants, and maintenance personnel as compared to my father's day.

 

[EAP]

indeed...

"I do not know why this business seems to breed contemp although I believe that some of it comes from the nature of the flight crews job is one where they check in and fly. There is little interaction with a wide spectrum of people within the company."

The career of a professinal pilot, particularly for a large (at least 500 pilot) outfit is unique and requires one to act in a very self sufficient, independant nature unseen nearly anywhere else save a few examples.

A few months ago I was trying to explain how my job worked to a friend of mine. I was explaining how you pick and know what your schedule is, to how you show up for work, and how you are the on-sight manager for the airline at your particular flight, to how the ATC system supports your PIC decisions unlike scenes protrayed in movies where ATC directs decisions, etc. He was completely confused about how you could go your entire carrer without ever meeting your boss, the cheif pilot (as long as nothing goes wrong or you don't have political aspirations). And how you have to play "you bet your job" every so many months. And how, on a massive scale, we have to be trusted to show up on time, at location, and do everything based on our own judegement, making decisions that effect anything from safety to company profitability to a large number of people's lives to our own industry's future. I certainly didn't go about trying to create a God complex description of the un-touchable airline captain - nope. I just described the job as is. And his amazement of it all reminded me we are all in an extremely unique and fortunate position, no matter what airplane we fly - be it commuter or 747.

On the other side of the coin, our "seniority based" jobs are constantly under attack from Bisquick airline managers and market forces that promote undercut performers. Let's see, add one airplane, put one part, maybe two parts pilots, and minimum pay for altitude, cook for a few years and you get...... a golden parachute! And a new job implementing those ideas at the next place with a signing bonus even!

In some days of despiration, I wish we could have an environment where we as pilots could get a golden parachute, or go to the competition when things get crappy at brand X airlines without having to start over. That's what some management types do, and we as line pilots are left holding the bag as our DNA is still imprinted with our seniority numbers at ONE and only one airline. For good. Unless you'd like to start over, and explain why you did for a while. Yes, seniority has saved us all for sure too, but as always, there are double edged swords.

So, sometimes I think we as a work group get a little contemptuous and viciously defensive of our turf when we realize somebody's latest bright idea may mutate and destroy our career DNA, if you will. That same person is likely to not stick it out for the long haul either. Yes, there are some very gifted leaders and managers out there that built the airline industry but typically we get to play lab rat for the not so good ones. It's hard for professionals who's lifes depend on learning from mistakes and not repeating them to watch the wheel get invented over and over by the bad ones.

I'm not saying all airline managers are reckless, but it's hard not to hold other's in higher positions than one's self to the same degree of scrutiny that one is held to. We as pilot's are always under scrutiny, it's part of the job.

 

[publisher]

excellent post

Excellent post and right on.

What you need to understand is that everyone else in this country is in that very same boat and most without a union or senority protection.

If their manager makes a mistake, they can be gone, and they have no recourse. There are no golden parachutes for the vast majority.

 

[canadflyau]

good post

Good Post EAP