Flight Time limits? (pt.91)

[340drvr]

Just looking for an average, what self-imposed flight time limits (if any) do most corporate Part 91-only flight departments adhere to, say, for 2-pilot crews, domestic ops? Similar to 135/121 rules, or way off the chart, or, none at all?
Thanks.

 

[2EASYPilot]

Just looking for an average, what self-imposed flight time limits (if any) do most corporate Part 91-only flight departments adhere to, say, for 2-pilot crews, domestic ops? Similar to 135/121 rules, or way off the chart, or, none at all?
Thanks.

If you have access to it, we mirror the Flight Safety Foundation recommendations with very minor variations.

 

[jrbevis]

8 hrs starting from first flight. Later then that, we spend the night. Its upset a few people.

 

[G100driver]

It depends. We will fly from the west coast to Cental Europe provided we do not leave past 2pm. When coming home, we will do it in one day provided we leave from Enland or Ireland.

Both of these trips are done in less than a 14 hour duty and approx 11 hours of flying with 2 pilots.

If we sit on the ground for more than 6 hours we get a day room.

As a general rule we fly 135 duty times but take into account circadian highs and lows to avoid flying tired. (completly unlike 135)

 

[Raskal]

We mostly follow 135 rules in the managed aircraft I fly (the rest of our company is 91k) with the exception of the duty time. As flight time rarely becomes an issue, the duty time is the limiting factor, in our case we have agreed to a 16.5 hr duty day maximum (I've only hit it twice in 3 years), but is flexible depending on our condition. So far it has never been a problem.

 

[Dinger]

It depends. We will fly from the west coast to Cental Europe provided we do not leave past 2pm. When coming home, we will do it in one day provided we leave from Enland or Ireland.

Both of these trips are done in less than a 14 hour duty and approx 11 hours of flying with 2 pilots.

If we sit on the ground for more than 6 hours we get a day room.

As a general rule we fly 135 duty times but take into account circadian highs and lows to avoid flying tired. (completly unlike 135)

Ditto....my boss has a motto...."being the CEO, people can adjust to my schedule....let's fly safe! It's a VERY nice way of operating.

 

[southernpilot]

10 Hours of flight time. Our main criteria is when did duty time start? 03:00A.M., or 09:00A.M.? We can get a day room anytime.

 

[AA717driver]

We generally stick to 10.5 of flight time but it can be bumped up with the concurrence of the crew.

I believe 16 hours of duty but, again, it can be stretched.

The owners are very understanding when you draw the line. They do tend to like late day departures on international trips, though... TC

 

[svcta]

You guys are all in pretty good situations. When I contract I have personal limits of about 14 hour duty days. There's one operator that I occasionally contract for that in the past I've had to tell them that a 15 or 16 hour duty day is just beyond my personal limits. Suffice it to say they don't call as regularly as they used to, but they want me to be a professional and them's the breaks.

At my regular job this doesn't come up much, but I fly with a guy(to whom I also report) that hates to tell the boss "no" about anything. Which is a GREAT attitude until you start applying it to things like operating long days, or in poor health, or in and out of unsuitable airports because they're convenient. We don't stay very busy and our currency, to me, is always in question when you boil it down. It's genuinely not a problem day in and day out, but I hate it when I voice an opinion about something with which he agrees and the next day he tells me that he told the boss we could do something that I told him I'm uncomfortable with(to which he previously agreed was maybe not the safest play).

The guys who signs the checks is very safety conscious and would have no problem if one of us said something if it were legit. But the C.P. seems to be reticent to say anything at best.

Again, this hasn't really ever turned in to a problem, but it's a lurking issue that given time will rear its ugly head. I envy all of you with the duty time limits and solidarity to stick to them. The lack of clear operating rules is my least favorite part of 91 flying.

Sorry for the run on sentence in paragraph 2!

 

[G100driver]

svcta: The trick the CP at your operation needs to learn is how not to say "no." Give the boss options.

IE my boss want to go to Rio. That would be about 14 hours of flying from my part of the US. Instead of asking him we can rest, we told him his options were to spend the night in Curacao one direction and Grand Caymen in the other .... or hire a 2nd crew to take him on the 2nd leg.

You are not saying, "no" but allowing him to make the option on how he wants to handle the flight.

I know that I am preaching to the choir here, but this is how I have always handled these situations and I am the guy having to have these converstations with the boss. The key is to never say, "no," but inform him how to do the mission safely.

With respect to operating in and out of marginal strips, that might be a little tougher, but it just takes being a professional in those situations to say, "no." At sametime, you immediatly provide an alternate. IE, it is snowing in TEB and they are landing on Runway 6.

ME: "We cannot safely make the landing according to the perfomance charts (at least that is what the Dassault AFM would tell you) so we are flying into Newark. I have arranged for your car to pick you there and I will move the airplane to TEB when the weather clears up for your departure on Wednesday."

BOSS: "sigh, thanks"

Good luck! Fortunatly this does not sound like a regular problem.