Flight Options vs. Executive Jet

airludy

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I am trying to decide which company is better to work for. I know Flight Options pays a lot more, but it isnt always about the money. Can I have some input please.
 

rufus

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Flight Options pays more for now, but remember we are in union contract stuff right now. In other words, soon EJA will be the best paying frac by far with a union and give you job security that flight options can not. Flight options prior to sept 11 was in deep crap but are doing fine for the time, but a Berkshire company and Warren Buffett is a much better gamble than anything else. My advice is go to some FBO,s and talk to the pilots. You will find EJA pilots a lot happier than thoise at fight options plus we fly new planes and not some 1970 junker. Sorry flight options guys, but it is the truth
 

tjsatter

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Contract Status?

What's going on with these contract negotitations at EJA? I've heard all the rumours of how good the new contract will be etc. etc. etc. and everybody I've talked to indicates very good relations union/company. But nevertheless they've been without a contract since last October?

tj
 

GooseHZ

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Flight Options

Rufus,

Junk??? I would not call or aircraft junk...1970s yes, but not junk.
i guess the airlines fly in junk airplanes to?

FO is a good place to work, i have been there for 2 years and really enjoy the place. Good MX, good people and good Aircraft. Would i like to fly new airplanes...yes, but not for the pay you are getting. New/used we do the same job. I hope that you get a kick butt contract.....then so will we....and it will be more. That way you can wait another year or 2 for your union to catch up to FO pay.

Fly safe.
;)
 

rufus

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I guess we will see when you are out of work sometime soon and my pay is about 45k with my extra time in my first year. Do not bet my UNION contract is going to make you happy. You have to do that for ourself. Good luck and we will sign a contract that makes us the highest payed frac guys around. So in other words what ever you get after our contract is signed, we will get higher. Good luck and I am biased because I work at EJA. Thank god we all do not want the same job.
 

GooseHZ

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"I guess we will see when you are out of work sometime soon "

Rufus,

why do you think i will out of work???

Fly Safe!
 

RJL

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I'm no expert, but how can the combination/merger of Flight Options and Raytheon Travel Air be successful? Has either company ever made a profit? Has either company been able to get the financial backing and supoort that EJA has? How many jets are they selling right now comapred to a few years ago?

Rumor has it that Travel Air has been "for sale" for several years. They partnered with Flight Options after being turned down by the other fracs. Why would EJA and Flexjet turn down the opportunity to merge with or buy Travel Air if it was such a good company? Makes me wonder.

If anyone has any facts, I would love to hear them. The rumor mill seems to be running pretty hot and heavy right now.

RJ
 

EJA Capt

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FLOPSLLC pay, that is a good question.
None of us at EJA doubt that you guys are getting paid more, but, just for the record, what IS first year pay (No per diem, nothing but base pay) and how much per month do you pay for medical? I realize that fracstats.com is a little dated.

The random quotes I have seen on this post have you PAYING considerably more for you insurance than we pay for union dues. The pay quotes I have seen have only been 1-2K above ours.
For example, if you pay $200 per month for insurance, you actually pay over $1800/yr more than we do for dues. Which would all but negate a $2000 pay rate above ours? Do you REALLY think KR will give you a 70% raise to top us in the long run?

Everyone likes the anti union rhetoric, but usually the first thing another frac pilot asks us is, "What's up with the....contract, union, etc?" Ironic, huh?
 
Last edited:

EJA Capt

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Flydog,
Thanks for your post. Could you explain a few things for me? What are the "benefit credits" and how are they used? What is incentive pay? I looked under 1st year captains and F/Os with family medical on the Beechjet and King Air.

Omitting the $648 Credit, $1788 medical, $911.52 dental, $119 disability =$2818.52 (For reference, all of the above is covered under EJA's union dues, $35/month for F/Os...$412/year)
401K is matched 100% to 4%, so 1st year is about $1360.
EJAs is 50% to 20%, about $2710 (before upgrade pay)

EJA $27,108 - $412 + 2710 = $29,406
FO LLC $34,000 1st yr F/O - $2818= $31,182 + 1360 = $32,542

Only a difference of $3136

I also checked at the 4 year Hawker Capt level and estimate a difference of 1-2K.

All while FO LLC works more days per year, no holiday pay, with no sick time and vacation time. ( I realized there are 16 personal days).

Just something to think about.
 

GooseHZ

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INFO

EJA CPT,

The Credits are to help pay for the Benifits.
54.00 per month if you use FOs program
96.00 per month if you use an outside vender(your wifes plan and so on)
I wish we could get the plan that the RTA pilots got..it was great.
Mabye now the FO has 900 pilots we can get a better deal......dose anyone know anything about that?????

Incentiveday rates are:
Cpt
383.00 Light Jet
468.00 hawker/CIII
565.00 CL/50
628.00 G-IV
FO
182.00
220.00
301.00
377.00

1st yr Cpt on Light jet is 4333.00= 51,996.00
1st yr FO on light Jet is 2833.00= 33,996.00

IF you want to add perdiem...for Light jet 677.28 per month
i take 300.oo a month, so i make 377.00=3603.36 a year on that give or take.
If you can make Checkairman its 800.00 more
so if everything gose you way you can mkae some good money
1st year cpt pay 51996.00
perdiem 3603.00
10 overtime days 3830.00
= 59429-2075= 57,354.00...not bad, but this is what i did last year...its not the norm

EJA and FO are both really good places to work...in my other post i was not slamming EJA in any way....just pocken fun. Im happy you guys are happy. We should all be glad that we have good jobs....

I do think that KR WILL beat EJAs new contract when the time comes to do it, KR can not afford to lose the amount of pilots that would go to EJA if he dose not step up to the plate.

I hope this info helps you out......

RJL,

I dont know if FO made money, but we are growing. So the FO/RTA merger should work out...if its done right. I just hope they did not bite off more than they can chew. When Fo started the program EVERYONE said we would not last.......well we are now the 2nd largest frac.....thanks to the hard working RTA pilots that now work for FO.

Both of you FLY SAFE!!!
 

ERJ - Jay

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David,

I hope I'm not prying, but Flight Options is right now my first choice; however, I don't know what would be considered "competitive". Are you at liberty to discuss what "most" people got picked up at. I realize that the market has changed, and that there are many applications on file, but where do most of your pilots come from?
Also, what of the 115 aircraft on order with Raython? Any word as to when they might show up and what types they may be?
On RTA web page they have the Hawker Horizon and Primer I are they coming to FO, and if so will the Primer I be single pilot opps?
Also what's happening with RTA's B200s? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Please either post or private message if you can. Thanks,

Jason
ERJ 135/145 FO
 

GooseHZ

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aircraft

Jason,

I have seen pilots hired with only ATP mins and some jet time. But that was before 9/11. Now i really dont have a clue to what they want. With your time im sure you would get looked at harder than some on with no jet time.

As far as the New A/C i have heard that the B200s are going to stay on line. As far as the Hawker horizon and Primer goaes we should get all 115 airplanes when ever Raytheon can get them to us. There are NO single pilot ops at FO,all 2 man crews.

This is a hetic time at FO righ now with all the merger stuff going on...put your resume in and keep in touch

fly safe!
 

EJA Capt

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Re: INFO

GooseHZ said:

Incentiveday rates are:
Cpt
383.00 Light Jet
468.00 hawker/CIII
565.00 CL/50
628.00 G-IV
FO
182.00
220.00
301.00
377.00

1st yr Cpt on Light jet is 4333.00= 51,996.00
1st yr FO on light Jet is 2833.00= 33,996.00


EJA and FO are both really good places to work...in my other post i was not slamming EJA in any way....just pocken fun. Im happy you guys are happy. We should all be glad that we have good jobs....

GooseHZ,
Thanks for the response. No offense taken.
Let me clarify my question on the incentive pay. I didn't mean what the $ amount was, I was wondering what it IS? (ie...incentive for what?). Is it like OT days, incentive pay to stay in type??

Thanks again,
 

beytzim

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Raytheon is required to sell the Horizon to EJA before it goes to RTA?!? I think I heard the same about 800xp's as well.

beytzim
 

EJA Capt

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Raytheon is required to sell the Horizon to EJA before it goes to RTA?!? I think I heard the same about 800xp's as well.
- beytzim

I'm not sure about a deal with the 800XP, but there was one between RAC and EJA. Something about after the initial deliveries to RTA, control of deliveries would revert to EJA. I have been trying to find details of this "agreement" online with no luck.

RTA did defer a dozen or so 800XPs a few months ago, and those aircraft did go to EJA. From what I understand, the FLOP/RTA deal for 115 aircraft DID NOT include the Horizon. RTA's orders were canceled.

I have read that K. Ricci intends to place an order for them, but the latest word from ICT, is that any orders placed today would not be delivered until after 2006.
 

niteflyr

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Cost of Bennies

Not a huge issue in the middle of all the compensation discussion here but a new tidbit about the bennies at EJA. New hires at EJA are given the option of a company paid insurance plan now, separate from the union. That is all covered by the company, no deductions from the check. But then you are still obligated to pay the union even though you are not being insured through their plan, so you really aren't saving any $$ amount, but it is nice to see a company picking up the whole cost.
 

tjsatter

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Now I'm confused. What do you mean company versus union insurance? What "option"? Why one versus teh other? Union dues are due regardless, I guess.

Many I've talked to are as impressed that I'll be a member of the Teamsters as anything else. I'm not sure why, I'm not. Are they that good a union? I was a steelworker before doing 20 years in management. Been on both sides of union/company

tj
 

patch

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EJA vs EJM

This is my first visit and I have obviously encountered some very
active and verbal pilots with a great deal of passion.

So....with that in mind......in an amicable atmosphere....what are the main differences between EJA and EJM.

To further promote friendship.....I work for one of the companies
but am unclear about the other. Here is what I know :

1: We have the same owners
2. EJA - Union /EJM - Not
3. Pay relativly the same
4. All trained by FSI
5. EJA - Gateway/ EJM- live where you want
6. Schedules similar
7. Medical similar

What else??
 
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