Flexjet Falls Short

[Bird brain]

I can't believe that after all this waiting now we have to wait until May 1? Why, what are they waiting for?

 

[netjetwife]

They are waiting for the furor to die down. It's typical union busting tactics---drag it out as long as possible and hope that enough of the pilots will be so worn down that the vote will fail. The NJ pilots contract is currently big news in the frac industry. The more weeks that pass the less (they figure) pilots will be comparing their pay to NJ's. They want the whole thing to go away so that they can continue to overwork/underpay their pilots. The longer they keep your payraise in their pockets the greater chance they have of it staying there.

Sorry guys, I see their offer as placating--not progress. I didn't realize that y'all were working that many more days. I feel badly for all of you and your families. Families deserve (yes, I'm using that word) a balanced schedule, and those who choose (or are assigned) the reserve are paid extra for it. That is what is fair. Don't look at the yearly amount; it doesn't give the accurate picture. Figure out your daily rate and compare that to the frac standard--NJ/CS rate. When those figures are comparable, then begin comparing benefits and QOL issues. There is a new industry standard and the other frac pilots deserve--for my critics, I'll say it again---frac pilots deserve to receive like compensation packages for performing the same service. It is a cost of doing business and it's time to pay up!

Booing and hissing on the sidelines,
Netjetwife

 

[miles otoole]

Then why not 6 on 7 off? Isn't this better? If you have such a SU, why throw all the new hires under the bus by not giving them HBA? How would YOU feel if hubby were just leaving the military to work for NJA and you were FORCED to live where they told you to? Even the regional airlines don't abuse their new hires. Why not push Buffet for a Defined Benefits pension plan such as Citation and Bumardier? Are your boys not worth it? Why wait another 5 years? Do you really think this package is fair for FOs, CAs?
I hope I don't sound caustic, but if NJA were truly making money, why didn't you seek a pay package similar to what Delta had in 2001, i.e $250,000+ a year for CAs? I don't see how a 5,000 hour + CA who flies VERY high net worth individuals only makes 100K a year.

 

[Archie Bunker]

I hope I don't sound caustic, but if NJA were truly making money, why didn't you seek a pay package similar to what Delta had in 2001, i.e $250,000+ a year for CAs? I don't see how a 5,000 hour + CA who flies VERY high net worth individuals only makes 100K a year.

Miles,

You're comparing apples to oranges. Delta's payscale slides up or down (a lot) depending on what jet you fly (pax capacity of aircraft). A Delta Capt that made 250K+ a year back in 2001 was more than likely flying a 767 or a MD-11, carrying close to 300 passengers......in other words, a big ole wide body aircraft. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that NJA has anything remotely close to that size of aircraft. A more fair comparison would be to look at the BBJ payrates and compare them to Delta 737-800 rates. Since Delta mainline doesn't fly anything smaller than a 737-200 now, it's kind of tough, and not really fair to compare hourly rates to a Falcon, G-200, or an Ultra for that matter.

Your comment about a 5000 hr Capt making 100K has merit, but at least NJA's pilots are moving in the right direction, and their benefit package is really outstanding. I'm sure the pilots of NJA would like nothing better than to see one of the other fractionals raise the bar even further on pay and benefits.

 

[XPGuy]

What exactly is Miles' point? What is it he's trying to say? It just sounds like bitching with no reason.

 

[Diesel]

Does miles even work for a fractional. He doesn't even have any time in his type that we fly.

Looks like a swa guy

 

[RNObased]

Then why not 6 on 7 off? Isn't this better? If you have such a SU, why throw all the new hires under the bus by not giving them HBA? How would YOU feel if hubby were just leaving the military to work for NJA and you were FORCED to live where they told you to? Even the regional airlines don't abuse their new hires. Why not push Buffet for a Defined Benefits pension plan such as Citation and Bumardier? Are your boys not worth it? Why wait another 5 years? Do you really think this package is fair for FOs, CAs?
I hope I don't sound caustic, but if NJA were truly making money, why didn't you seek a pay package similar to what Delta had in 2001, i.e $250,000+ a year for CAs? I don't see how a 5,000 hour + CA who flies VERY high net worth individuals only makes 100K a year.

Tool, Do you get drunk and post???

 

[Pilot's Wife]

Shouldn't union push wait till after May?

Interesting comments from all on here. I think all Flex people will say that the additional money would be nice. No one is debating that. However, flex pilots made it very clear through the CAB and BB and other venues that their main concern was QOL - especially amount of days worked per bid period. Whoever said on here that management/Bombardier figured out a pay raise would be cheaper than hiring enough pilots to meet a reduced schedule is likely right. For me, a key flaw is the figures that were presented at the meeting. Accuracy is key to credibility. Many of you on here have said you have never worked a 1/2 day in your life and their comparisons of pay based on 214 1/2 days ???? Pilots work pay has been based on 221 days for the last several years - all of a sudden it's 214 1/2 - who is getting that???? Does that mean that their goal of making the worked days per year of 202 is actually 208 1/2???

Many of you on here know that I have said several times that Flexjet has, by and large, been good to my family. I still believe that. When babies were being born, or illnesses were going on, my husband has always been able to call in and get home in time to participate. I feel that we earn enough money to get our needs met. The new healthcare offerred this year is awful. That already had employees upset, but this is worse. They didn't even give verbal or written answers to legitimate questions about QOL. I think pilots are at least owed that. If the company figured that more pay is better for it than less days worked for pilots - than admit it, explain it and move on. Don't leave your pilot's hanging with false promises, flawed figures, and no communication.

I know there is a BIG push for union now at Flex. I don't have any comments on that except I understand (possibly incorrectly - and tell me if I am) that at some point in the process of joining a union the company is required by law to freeze all wages and benefits until it is resolved. If this is true, don't you guys want to wait until after May to start this? At least get the raise first and then base all negotiations on numbers after these changes. It took NJ 4 years to work out its contract. I don't want our wages and benefits frozen here for that long while this is being worked out.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

.....At least get the raise first and then base all negotiations on numbers after these changes. It took NJ 4 years to work out its contract. I don't want our wages and benefits frozen here for that long while this is being worked out.

Looks like the delay tactic is working on you. Are you really who you say you are? For everyone else, a scheduled pay raise will not be frozen due to any law. This is just a potential ploy to keep us bickering. Look past it and think of your future. It won't take four years. Even if it did, what did you get during the last four years? A whole lot of flight time? More grey hair?

 

[XPGuy]

We are dealing with a similar situation at Flight Options and our Union drive. This is how it went down.


When Net Jets got their new contract ratified, and thus an immediate 30 to 50% raise from their current salaries, which put them around 20-30% above our salaries. Our company, Flight Options, said that they did not expect the Net Jets contract to ratify, nor any other fractional to match it., and that it was an unsustainable business model, and that Flight Options would NOT match it.Citation Shares matched that new salary + 1% within a week, which shot down Flight Options' philosophy in both aspects. That put our Union drive into high gear, and our mailbox was overfilling with cards.

In late November /early December, the Union made sure the company heard that we had 60% of our company's pilots' cards - the Teamsters wanted 65% for us to submit a petition to the National Mediation Board (NMB). The NMB only requires 35% - we already had more than enough to have a vote.

When the company heard that, they then announced through company meetings with pilots in our recurrent classes, that they were now "looking at a new compensation package". That was it. No details, but a complete reversal.

Just after Mid December rolled around, and the Union made sure the company heard that we had enough cards to petition the NMB (and then some), and would be doing so right after the first of the year and the holiday season was over. When the company heard that, and ONLY when the company heard that, did they then announce "a new industry-competititve compensation plan would be announced no later than JANUARY 31st".

The company KNEW that we would have already petitioned the NMB by then. It was what they thought, a win-win situation - they hoped that announcement would delay the Union from wanting to petition the NMB, and effectively stall the vote another 30 days, giving the company more time to make all kinds of promises to the pilots to try to sway support for the vote. During a union campaign, time is on the company's side, as they can communicate easier and more effectively than the union can, and the company can promise the moon to sway votes. On the other hand, if the union did petition anyways, they could then claim that they would love to give the pilots a raise, but now that the union interferred by calling a vote, that they had to "freeze" pay, and couldn't do it, making the union look bad and costing the pilots their much-needed raise. It didn't work, our pilots for the most part have seen through the plot.

Our union leaders have told us that this very threat was discussed with the best labor lawyers in the country, and that the lawyers told them that since the announcement of the raise was announced before the NMB was petitioned for a vote, that the company can in fact still give the raise announcement they teased the pilots with - they are NOT obligated to "freeze" and not give that.

The Flexjet pilots' situation is exactly the same thing. The company has now announced their raise plan. Should the Flexjet pilots have enough cards to petition the NMB, the company will in fact be frozen from making any changes, however since the changes in pay were already planned before the petition, they should still be able to implement it.

That is the understanding from the labor attorneys. Whether the management at either company agrees is a different story, and it is quite possible something that could end up in court, and a judge decides who is right.

Just thought I'd let you know that this issue has been addressed to lawyers, and that is what they said, and they should know a lot more than we do. We would expect the management of the companies to play the "we'd love to give you a raise but now we can't" card, because that's their job, to delay any raises, and keep the company's costs down, and if the pilots buy it and don't fight it, they save millions of dollars over the 90-day campaign.

It is a nasty battle, and unfortunately, it is our quality of life that is at stake. It's ugly, but it is management's fault that the battle is here - if we don't fight for ourselves, we know management won't do it, so we have no choice, and Net Jets' contract is proof of the end result of a good fight from the pilots - they won. Now it's our turn.