Confusion ATC clearance phraseology

[BGSM]

Your at 13,000 assigned and 5 west of XYZ VOR ATC issues a clearance cross 10 east of XYZ VOR at 9,000 You advise them you need to deviate because of weather,
they then issue "cleared direct XYZ VOR direct destination that will keep you clear of the weather".

You go direct and to XYZ VOR then direct destination maintaining 13,000. ATC then asks if you are going to make it down to 9,000 as you are direct to your destination. You ask them to clarify they want you at 9,000 since they changed your clearance they say yes hurry down you begin your desent to 9,000. You desend but are unsure if you made the crossing restriction My two questions are:

Should the amended/new clearance been given by ATC as direct XYZ direct destination cross 10 east of XYZ VOR at 9,000 ?

Nothing was said by ATC ie call this number Anything to worry about?

When in doubt ask but there was no doubt by the pilot who apparently was wrong in understanding the clearance.

Thanks for the input

 

[SSDD]

In the strictest interpretation, one could say that he needed to restate it, but when we try to split hairs, we lose. Since this wasn't a specific fix, just a generic "10 east" I'd say that the restriction still applies, and obviously so did the controller. I'd file an ASR report, or an ASAP, if your compaony has them

 

[ATCT]

Ok I'll try an interpet this to the best my ability...

I as a controller saying "Cross 10 East of XXX @ ####" mean, wherever you are going I want you at that altitude at that point. Now if you need to divert around some weather, so be it, but as it seems above, the controller in question didnt need to restate the descent. He couldve re-stated it just to be nice, but the previous altitude instruction still applies.

As a pilot myself I would start my descent to cross that general area (even if its northeast, instead of east) of the VOR at 9,000.

Im not what the "Clearead direct destination etc" phraseology is for. Usually I say "Deviation around weather your discretion, let me know back on course"

Hope that helps!

(Im a tower guy so I dont do much of this haha)

 

[Flyin2low]

I agree with both of you

 

[B190Captain]

If you are unsure you can always ask after the amended clearance was issued if you still need to be at that altitude.

 

[Seadogrun]

While I don't disagree with the above posts I believe that there is a grey area concerning the answer to this question. First when atc gives the clearance to cross 10 east xyz at 9000ft the clearance is to cross the point that is 10 miles east that is on your route. This is a specific point to cross. Now you are going around that point that is on your route and the descent instructions become vague. The best thing would be to clairify with ATC what exactly is wanted.

It's almost the same as "cross xyz at 9000", but later get a clarance around xyz(for weather or otherwise) the crossing restricton is nullified unless they instruct you to cross abeam at that altitude.

In my opinion in your case you are going around the point that the crossing restriction referenced and ATC should have given you a FPM or Time to descend ie. "be level in two minutes" or "maintain 2000 ft/min. descent."


At any rate I wouldn't worry if I was you.

 

[Ravengirl]

I've always been told that if the original clearance is changed, I need to re-state any applicable crossing restrictions.

Just my $.02.

SW

 

[SpauldingSmails]

BG,

First off, I don't think this pilot has anything to worry about. I frequently am given crossing restrictions when on RNAV direct routing coming into my home airport. Usually something to the effect of "Cross two-five miles northwest of ABC Airport at five-thousand". Regardless of my deviations or assigned headings prior that point, I understand there's usually a reason behind the crossing restriction, namely other aircraft. In the case you referenced above it was simply to cross 10 east of the VOR at 9k, not a discreet fix, so I'd say that the cross still applies.

 

[Flyin2low]

The typical cross XX miles from a fix clearance is usually to comply with traffic moving into another controllers sector. So if you cross abeam that point, there is no issue.