Citation SII

[SheGaveMeClap]

Anybody out there fly an SII? It seems to be a good airplane, as far as the older model Citations are concerned. Anybody got any good real world numbers in it?

From the numbers I've found, it looks like it's a 390-400 kt. cruise airplane, 5900 pounds of gas? Doesn't it have a weeping wing? How do you like that? Is it as effective as boots/wing heat if you use it correctly? Range, full fuel? Full seats?

I've got a friend who is airplane shopping, and it seems it might be a good fit. Thanks in advance for any good information.....

Clap

 

[gear_guy]

Anybody out there fly an SII? It seems to be a good airplane, as far as the older model Citations are concerned. Anybody got any good real world numbers in it?

From the numbers I've found, it looks like it's a 390-400 kt. cruise airplane, 5900 pounds of gas? Doesn't it have a weeping wing? How do you like that? Is it as effective as boots/wing heat if you use it correctly? Range, full fuel? Full seats?

I've got a friend who is airplane shopping, and it seems it might be a good fit. Thanks in advance for any good information.....

Clap

I used to fly one for a few years. It's a good short field airplane and can carry a full load of pax (8) and bags about 700 nm I think. The TKS wing sucks. I used it a couple of times. If you turn it on too soon, the fluid will freeze and you have a real mess. But the wing does'nt really accumulate it fast. I just left icing conditions most of the time. The engine anti-ice scared the crap out of me the first time I got in some moderate ice. It's not uncommon to see ITT drop 100 degrees and back up. I thought I was gonna have a dual flameout the first time I saw that. I wish somebody at FSI would have told me about that one. I can't remember the max range. Of course, you're not going anywhere fast, and it's cramped for you and the pax. But if you're looking at Citations you already know that. Oh yeah, and every landing is a controlled crash (no trailing link gear). If you have freaon a/c my biggest complaints are anti-ice, cabin size, and speed in that order.

 

[BoilerPilot]

I contract on an SII and it is a good bird for the CE-500 type family. The anti-ice issue on the wing is also probably my biggest complaint. It gets dirty, can freeze, and actually can cause corrosion from what I understand if not handled properly over time. You will get 380-400 knots out of it dependant on weight and altitude. 2 Pax and Full Fuel we can go to 410 pretty easy. 430 is pretty much unusable for the airplane, unless you are mid fuel and mainly crew or very few pax. Like Clap said, the landings will never be the same. You will not be consistent just know that up front. We operate from the midwest with it and can go to either coast with no problem and most of Canada and Mexico. This airplane will go further than you will want for the space you get. Not sure about all of them but the "galley" is little weak in structural design if you ask me. I actually prefer the SII over the straight five for bang for the buck appeal. The five is about the same airplane except you burn more gas for about 10-20 kts. This doesn't include the Ultra or Encore. Yes, some of the equipment may be better, but there are some real nice equipped SIIs available.

 

[B1900FO]

A buddy of mine flies one single pilot for personal/business use. He swears by the airplane, loves the flexibility and says it'll do 390 kts all day, every day. As for the TKS wing, he says its one of those things that if you know how to use it, it's great, but it takes awhile to get used to it. Like gear_guy said he gets out of icing most of the time and uses it very rarely.

If you're friend has some extra money to spend maybe consider a Bravo. I have some Bravo time and absolutely love the airplane. It is quiter and slightly more fuel efficient than the S/II with the different engine. It's still a pratt but I believe an extra turbine was added. The Bravo will, hands down, compete with the S/II speed wise, plus you get much better avionics (depending on the FMS you get) and you can't beat the trailing link landing gear. The one I flew was operated out of a 3800' runway and more than a few times, on a hot day we made it to Ft lauderdale (850nm) with 5 in the back with no problem. Also, every landing was good no matter how hard you slammed it on. With the straight leg Citation I know I would've bounced more than once one the runway we operated out of. At any rate, the Citation is a great airplane for the money, as well as the capability. Maybe consider a CJ2? Good luck!!!!

-B1900FO

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

It's funny you mention the Bravo and CJ2. He is thinking about partnering up with his buddy and going in on a CJ2 or Bravo, but his buddy has the latest and greatest single-engine turboprop (still experimental) on order so he wants to see how that works out before he commits to a jet.

They were going to pool $2.5 million apiece and buy a Bravo or CJ2, but since his buddy is hesitant, I thought for $2.5 it would buy a decent SII. The SII has the speed and range he's looking for, but might burns more gas. He'll only fly 150-175 hours per year, so the difference in burn is about $30k per year more. At any rate, he can evaluate the SII for a year or two and see if he likes it. If he does, maybe his buddy will be ready to commit to a Bravo or CJ2 (or 3 by then) or he can go and buy one himself. If he doesn't like it, he can turn around and sell it for what he bought it for.

He's more than capable of purchasing either of these jets now, but he's too conservative at this point. He operates an efficient turboprop now and a little hesitant to jump into jets.

I fly an Ultra now so I'm familiar with the straight legged Citations. That trailing link gear would be nice.

Anyway, thanks for the good info. Anybody else got some dirt on the SII?

Clap

 

[stratman560]

I used to fly one for a few years. It's a good short field airplane and can carry a full load of pax (8) and bags about 700 nm I think. The TKS wing sucks. I used it a couple of times. If you turn it on too soon, the fluid will freeze and you have a real mess. But the wing does'nt really accumulate it fast. I just left icing conditions most of the time. The engine anti-ice scared the crap out of me the first time I got in some moderate ice. It's not uncommon to see ITT drop 100 degrees and back up. I thought I was gonna have a dual flameout the first time I saw that. I wish somebody at FSI would have told me about that one. I can't remember the max range. Of course, you're not going anywhere fast, and it's cramped for you and the pax. But if you're looking at Citations you already know that. Oh yeah, and every landing is a controlled crash (no trailing link gear). If you have freaon a/c my biggest complaints are anti-ice, cabin size, and speed in that order.

We operate a 560 and have the same issue with the ITT's. Scared the crap out of me too. I was fortunate enough to be co-pilot at the time and the captain said it was normal on our airplane. The guys at CAE told us that that was not normal but have heard several other crews report getting the same indications we have in icing conditions. I think some of the CAE guys just know how the sim responds to icing and not how the real airplane reacts but oh well....thats what the other crews in the class are for. Amen to the controlled crash....check your ego at the door when it comes to landing that thing cause its no simple task to master..... Still, its a great airplane, can haul a load and if its properly cared for, causes you few problems if any with maintenance. Good luck and enjoy the Citation.....you'll love it.

 

[can99]

Our 560 ITT's dont move more than 20 degrees when the anti ice is turned on, but whats with the sudden change in N1 when you go thru around FL320, suddenly it jumps from 99.0 right up to 100.5 at the blink of an eye, and its always around FL320.???

The Citation 2 is a great little plane for the price , but some of the older ones are going to bite into your wallet for maintenance, its just the fact of a older jet, which is always something big to consider in the equation that the salesman always lie about!

 

[gear_guy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 560 has different engines than the 550.

 

[B1900FO]

engines

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 560 has different engines than the 550.

Yep, you're right. I think the straight II's have the -4's, the S/II's have the -4b's and the 560 has the -5A. Something like that...

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

The Ultra has the -5D.