Best way to build hrs fro regionals?

[Alaskaairlines]

Hello guys!

I just would like to ask what you think is the best method of building flight time for the regionals. I live in Alaska and there are different options.
I might be able to get on a TwOtter in the near future while in college, or I could flight instruct and/or go fly in the bush.

I would love to get the Otter job, but who knows how that will turn out?

My question about the bush is, I might get placed in a 207, but is that a wise step? I won't be getting multi-time unless I am able to work at a company like Hageland where you can upgrade.

And of course I could flight instruct and build the same single engine time I would get in the bush with some ME instructing here and there.

So if you all could give me some good advise on what I should try to plan on.....I should have my ratings finished in 5-6 months, and I like to plan ahead and think things through.

Thanks for being such a tremendous help guys! Really do appreciate the tips and help I have been receiving!

-Dmitry

 

[cws]

It is probably best to take the Otter job because it is multi. If its possible, try not to worry about the pay and focus on the flight time. Build total and multi. That is the key. Atleast it was for me

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

If you are going to fly the bush you need the Part 135 VFR minimums which are in part at least 500 hours total. If your are going to get on as a copilot on a twin otter you'll just need your commercial multi but it is unlikely you'll get hired unless you have the hours to be competetive with others (ie. more than 250 hours). When I finished my commercial license back in '97 when everyone was still hiring I couldn't find any flying job. I sucked it up and went and got my CFI and CFII. I easily got a job then and built 900 hours in one year. Flight instructing is not very glamorous but unless you can get a dream job right after your commercial license (don't count on it), it is the best most consistent way to build time. Plus if you get on with a place that teaches in twins you can build multi time if you get your MEI which I did (the flight school I worked at paid for it). Plus flight instructing is a great way to build real PIC time and get the basics really down well (espescially if you get you CFII and MEI). If you can get a job flying skydivers or pipeline patrol or traffic watch then great but don't count on it. They are hard to come by. Then if you want to get on with a place that flies people or freight under IFR and you want to be PIC, then you'll need in part 1200 hours total. But that's awhile down the road. Regarding the pay, I would seriously consider the pay as well. You may work for someone and after a year be so far in credit card debt that you'll have to go get a job working outside of aviation in order to pay off your debts. You can't be picky but you don't have to fly for free or close to it either. Good luck.

 

[wil]

The twin otter job sounds good. I would be leary of bush flying given your experience.You have 40 years of career path ahead if all goes well. Take your time and be methodical in your decision. Some of my friends upgraded ahead of me at another airline (Airmidwest) and were getting the wonderful turbine, 121, PIC time. But, now the industry has changed and I was able to upgrade at my airline on the CRJ at a better pay scale then what there at on the 1900 at Mesa. It's a crap shoot, I wish I could give better advise then that but a career in aviation can be cruel mistress!

 

[mike1mc]

If you are going to fly the bush you need the Part 135 VFR minimums which are in part at least 500 hours total. If your are going to get on as a copilot on a twin otter you'll just need your commercial multi but it is unlikely you'll get hired unless you have the hours to be competetive with others

Even if he did get hired as a copilot, would he be able to log the time in a Twin Otter (requires 2 pilots)??

 

[Q200_FO]

Hi Dmitry

I can tell you which way I took to get to where I am now. Maybe that'll help. When I got my Comm, Inst and multi, I just wandered around for a few months wondering how I could build all that flight time without being a CFI. I looked around and found that everybody in Anchorage wanted 500+ total time as an absolute minimum and 500+ of Alaska time. At the time I only had just over 300 hours. After a few months, I sucked it up and got my CFI, CFII and MEI. I can tell you right now that getting the MEI was the best decision I ever made up to this point because during the summer of 2001, I was the only MEI at take flight for about 3 months, and during those busy 3 months during the summer, I racked up 160+ of multi time. Then other guys caught on and got their MEI's and we were fighting over students so to speak and I wasn't getting much time anymore. Then 9/11 hit and the class date I had lined up didn't happen so I kept instructing for another year, until I finally decided that I had enough of the crappy pay and I got a bush job with Grant in Bethel. I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that flying in the bush is easy. I don't know about the other guys on this board have either been to Alaska or if they're there right now, but take it from someone who's been born and raised there and who's done all their flying there up to the point of coming to the Pac NW. Flying in the bush can be challenging and it can be fun and you can make a hell of a lot mf money but one word of caution, KNOW WHEN TO SAY NO. By that I mean know when to tell that damm station manager that the weather is too crappy to fly and you won't go. If it's really bad, especially if it's illegal they can't touch you for refusing a flight. All the station manager sees is $$$$$$, he doesn't give a damm about your ass going out to fly some soda pop to some village that’s 10 miles away in 400 and 1/2 like they tried to do me last November. When I was there Grant was really good about understanding if I wasn’t comfortable with a flight, they always told me not to go. But there are operators that expect you to go no matter what so watch out. But on the other hand, I know a few buddies that are going to leave Era because of all the crap that they're dishing out, one already left for ACA, and another is thinking of leaving altogether. At one point I did want to work for either Era or Penair but when I went to the bush and heard all the stories from all the other pilots about how they got *hitted on by both companies, I told myself that I wanted nothing to do with them. So I just worked the bush until my class date came up again down here. I don't know about Hageland either, but I suspect that there isn't too much movement at the moment so an upgrade might take a while. My personal recommendation is to keep building PIC time, either instructing or by going in the bush after you get the Alaska time that the operators want. If you've done all your flying in Alaska then you'll have an idea of what to expect. Throughout growing up, I've read too many articles about how people get killed flying in the bush and the vast majority of them have always been from the lower 48 with a limited amount of Alaska experience. Like guys from riddle who have never seen anything buy a clear sunny day with the occasional thunderstorm here and there. A buddy of mine at Grant almost killed himself last October, he didn't show up at the pilot house that night, and when we woke up the next morning another pilot told up that he'd been up all night searching for him and that we'd had an accident. We though he was dead but he just broke his ankles and a couple of ribs and he was beat up pretty bad. He got VERY lucky. He was from California also. So if you do go out there, please be VERY careful. Don't feel like you have anything to prove to anyone. If the weather starts to get crappy enroute and you're not comfortable with it, turn around, ESPICALLY if you're hauling boxes like I was. Your life isn't worth 500 lbs of soda pop. The villagers can get it the next day. And in reality they don't even need to drink any soda at all. (If you've been to those villages you know what I'm talking about.) Or if you want to instruct, definitely get your MEI. Maybe you can be my MEI when I go back for my ATP in the next couple of months once I knock out another hundred more X-C hours in the dash. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Thanks J....!

Hey Man, thanks for the wonderful report!

All my 100 hrs so far are in AK excpet like 4, so I know what the bush is about.
I would love to fly asap, but I may be able to get on at Era some time in the near future and there requirements are the FAA's for the TW Otters. That is Inst/Comm/ME.

If that doesn't work out then I might have to instruct or go fly the bush, btw J, what did you fly fro grant? Was is SE stuff - or is Twin Turbine also possible to do from start?

I have heard lots of stories about the pressure the employer gives you to fly in junky weather - I am aware of that.
So hopefully the Otter deal works out soon (right after I finish my liscenses maybe) and that would be the perfect time for my logbook. And yes, you can log the Turbine ME time from the rt seat, as long as it has the dual instruments for both sides, its totally legal.

Keep it coming guys!

Thanks!

 

[ERJpusher]

I have never heard anything about being able to log time in an aircraft if it has dual instruments on both sides.

My understanding of the regulations is:

1. A pilot can log PIC time if the pilot is qualified in the aircraft and is the sole manipulator of the controls, OR if the pilot is giving instruction.

2. A pilot can log SIC time if they occupy a required crewmember seat in an aircraft certificated for two pilots.

Might be something to look into

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Hey There!

Well one of the Otter FOs told me that as long as the Otter has all the instruement the Capt panel has, then you can log it as SIC - those otters can be flown single pilot, they do 2 pilots for insureance purposes.

-Dmitry

 

[flx757]

Hey There!

Well one of the Otter FOs told me that as long as the Otter has all the instruement the Capt panel has, then you can log it as SIC - those otters can be flown single pilot, they do 2 pilots for insureance purposes.

-Dmitry

I think you should do your own research instead of relying on what "one of the Otter FOs told you". This has been discussed at length on this board numerous times. FAR 61.51(f) deals with logging SIC time. In a nutshell, it says you may log SIC time if you meet the requirements of 61.55 (which says you have to receive the appropriate SIC training), and more than one pilot is required under the type certificate of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is operated.

Insurance requirements do not qualify. The Twin Otter is type certificated for only one pilot, however I'm sure ERA operates the Twin Otter under FAR 135, and as such may require an SIC under their Operation Specifications. If that is the case, and they provide you with the required SIC training, then it is perfectly legal to log the time. However, instruments on the right side and insurance requirements alone do not make it legal to log the time. (I gotta admit, I have never heard the "instruments on the right side" deal before, either.)

One final word of caution, and I don't mean this in any condescending way. It is advice and caution from someone who has thousands of hours flying in Alaska. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking you know "what the bush is about". Especially with only 100 hours. Always know, understand and respect the limits of your aircraft, your operation and yourself. And don't let anyone else define these limits for you.