Attacking Iraq. A rapist's perspective.

[shooter31]

will7 what are you saying?

Are you saying that military leaders will not follow the orders of the CinC? Not likely.

 

[aggiepilot87]

This isn't the time for Texas style justice.

Let's look at this little comment and suppose that Texas style justice includes making someone pay a substantial price for a criminal offense. That sounds fine to me. What's the problem with this - not tollerant enough for you?!

After reading the other little comment "U.S. has a long history of medling...", I can only assume you're probably a mindless utopian from the northeast or California.

How about we just bow down to the world court? Turn over the Federal Reserve to the international monetary fund? Let the barbarian leaders of the world (Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, central Africa, Cuba, etc. etc.) continue threaten *our* citizens & interests? That's stupid! We have to do whatever is necessary to eliminate threats to the security and soverignty of the United States, AND assure free commerce necessary for our economic health.

The only question that should factor into any decision making is "how does this affect the US?" If propping up some banana republic dictator is in our best interst, then do it. If taking the guy out 10 years later is in our best interest, then do it.

Why don't you take a Texas Style bite out of that one, willi.

 

[aggiepilot87]

After reading the FoxNews article attached, it looks like clinton thinks Iraq quite possibly has nuclear weapons. If this is the case, then clinton's selfish inaction and bumbling incompetence has failed millions of Americans, past and present, beyond measure.

His suggesting that we wait is totally illogical. If there's even a chance the guy has nuclear capacity, we have to act quickly and heavily. All I know is what I hear from Bush. I believe he's sincere.

As for the bashing of Bush 41 and the decision to stop the offensive, get over it. Anyone can judge with 20/20 hindsight. You smart folks really know what's going to happen during the upcoming 10-15 years, then I'll listen.

 

[willi7]

ag, You show your true mental capacity by slaming Californians and Northeasterners without rational thought. I am not from either, not that it has anything to do with squat. And you make my point for me when you defend Bush Sr. by saying hindsight is 20/20. Political extremists always find a way to defend there party, even if same point works for the other side. If 20/20 works for B why not C? I never said that SH shouldn't be dealt with and now! We need to position ourselves better before we do it. SH is presently driving a wedge between us and the middle east by making Iraq look harrased by the U.S. He is playing cat and mouse with inspectors. We need world support for actions like this. I know people think that the U.S. can exist without the rest of the world, but they are wrong! Where I am from when you do something you do it right, get all the information. You don't go of half cocked. It's not a politcal issue it's a strategic millitary issue. Clinton did some good things and some bad things just like B-1 and 2 did and will do. Take the blinders of and realize that our politcal parties on both side are run by corperate intrests. We need to get corperate money out of politics....

 

[willi7]

Oh ya ag. There was another guy in history that tried to eliminate all perceived threats to his nations interest by war. His name was Hitler. If we go blow up every country that has a real or percieved threat to us, we will have to blow up every country in the world including Mexico and Canada! Is SH a big threat to the U.S. that is the debate... Iran and Egypt, Pakistan and many others pose a far greater risk than a contained Iraq! Just my .2..

 

[surplus1]

After reading the other little comment "U.S. has a long history of medling...", I can only assume you're probably a mindless utopian from the northeast or California.

I have to ask. What mindless utopian section of the country do you come from? Is it the Bible belt, the wilds of Texas, the narrowminded Midwest or a Neo-Nazi enclave in Montana?

The only question that should factor into any decision making is "how does this affect the US?" If propping up some banana republic dictator is in our best interst, then do it. If taking the guy out 10 years later is in our best interest, then do it.

Amazing. Do you actually realize what you just said? What is different from your expressed philosophy and Nazi style Facism or Soviet style Communism?

Do you have any understanding at all about what the difference between being an American and a gun-toting despot is supposed to mean?

Have you not studied any history, our history, read our Constitution or our Declaration of Independence? Don't those words have any meaning to you?

This American certainly hopes that folks with your thought process never gain control of our government, but fears that one of them may have already done so.

 

[Huck]

To correct a point about W.: during Viet Nam, he was an F-4 pilot in the Texas (and, for a short while, Alabama) Air Guard. He did not go to SE Asia because his unit was not deployed there. His daddy had nothing to do with it.

 

[aggiepilot87]

Unchilled quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by aggiepilot87
All I know is what I hear from Bush.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>That's Classic.

I'm assuming you disapprove... where do you get your foreign intelligence information, unchilled? you in the CIA? I have to listen to what I hear and decide what to believe. It's just my choice.

>surplus1 quote:

>I have to ask. What mindless utopian section of the country do you come from? ...a Neo-Nazi enclave in Montana?

Now that's a unique stereotype of a conservative... You didn't even finish the first thought without calling me a Nazi!

>What is different from your expressed philosophy and Nazi style Facism or Soviet style Communism?

Never been called a Communist before... that's a different one. and that's the second time you've had to lean on the Nazi theme. I did call willi7 a utopian, so you got me on the labelling thing, but where the debate?

>Do you have any understanding at all about what the difference between being an American and a gun-toting despot is supposed to mean?

How about standing up and not allowing foreign interests to negatively influence the course of our lifes/US security? besides, what do guns have to do with this?

>Have you... read our Constitution or our Declaration of Independence?

"We the People *of the United States*, ...do ordain and establish this Constitution *for the United States of America*." Where do these documents discuss foreign policy, other than requiring the president to defend the Constitution?

>This American certainly hopes that folks with your thought process... but fears that one of them may have already done so

Sorry it disappoints you that a conservative has been elected president. At a minimum, I'd say it just offsets the disservice the Clintonistas offered over the last 8 years.

>willi7 quote:

>There was another guy... His name was Hitler.

Can't you folks come up with anything more creative than just likening conservatives to Hitler or Nazis?

>If we go blow up every country that has a real or percieved threat to us...

I'm not saying we blow up any country. If said we should eliminate dictators posing a threat to US security.

happy flying

 

[surplus1]

Never been called a Communist before... that's a different one. and that's the second time you've had to lean on the Nazi theme. I did call willi7 a utopian, so you got me on the labelling thing, but where the debate?

I really don't think you are a Nazi or a Communist. What I think is that you are not taking the time to realize that some of the behavior you advocate is identical to their behavior.

Personally I'm neither a conservative or a liberal. I don't believe in those artificial stereotypes. That's hype. I'm all for protecting the security of the United States and defending our legitimate interests. We may differ as to what those interests are and the level of their legitimacy.

How about standing up and not allowing foreign interests to negatively influence the course of our lifes/US security? besides, what do guns have to do with this?

I share with you the idea of not allowing foreign interests to negatively influence the couse of our lives or our national security. What I do not share is the idea that we have the right to impose our will, our lifestyles and our ideas on other people's countries simply because we may have the military power to do so. That is where the "guns" come in. Guns = military might.

The purpose of our military, as I see it, is to defend the United States of America against all powers foreign and domestic. It is not to engage in hegemony in foreign countries that do not happen to see things exactly as we do.

If we want to convince others to see things our way, that is the function of diplomacy and education. Not the imposition of our will on others through military might. That is tyranny.

Our Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence do not discuss "foreign policy". They discuss and define the rights of mankind. In my opinion that is not confined to mankind that lives in the United State, but to ALL mankind. Freedom and self-determination is every man's individual right. That includes freedom from the dictates of the American military power or the Amercan government and includes the freedom to have different lifestyles, beliefs and ideas.

None of those concepts have anything to do with being a liberal or a conservative. They have everything to do with being an American. They ARE the difference between US and the rest of most of the world. I am not willing to give up the ideology that has made us who and what we are as a Nation and a people for the sake of any number of $$$$$ or the political power of any group or the religious beliefs of any sect. I will oppose those that do.

Sorry it disappoints you that a conservative has been elected president.

I am not dissapointed by the "election" of a conservative president. Unfortunately, a majority of the people of the United States did not vote for than conservative president and neither did a majority of the people of the Sate of Florida. The "conservative president" was essentially "elected" by a majority of one vote in the Supreme Court of the United States. Yes, that does dissapoint me and it should also dissapoint you.

I accept the Court's decision and acknowledge the fact that the man is "legally President". However, spare me the "elected" part, because it did not happen. By the way, I didn't vote for Mr. Gore which doesn't change the fact that Mr. Bush did not win.

It is not "conservatives" that are likened to Nazis or Hitler. It is people that advocate the use of military power to impose their will on others, wherever they may be or whatever we may think of them. Learn the difference and be a "conservative" if you wish. Just don't be a Facist. An overwhelming majority of "conservatives" are not.

You should also note that "conservative" political ideas are no more or less American than liberal political ideas. Diversity of our people and ideas are the strength of our country. Freedom to express them is its foundation.

Again, Freedom, does not mean freedom of Americans to do to others whatever happens to be in perceived American "interests". Lots of our so-called "interests" are less than noble when it comes to what our government does in its foreign policy. They are really the "interests" of a few powerful people, not the interests of the American people. Those kinds of "interests" I can do without.

 

[aggiepilot87]

Our Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence do not discuss "foreign policy". They discuss and define the rights of mankind. In my opinion that is not confined to mankind that lives in the United State, but to ALL mankind.

I have to disagree with this point. There has to be a firm distinction of what a US citizen is, what rights that person is born with or granted and what role government plays according to our Constitution. Without this distinction, our soverignty is essentially totally undermined.

As mentioned above, the following excerpt from the US Constitution simply and plainly states this to be fact. "We the People *of the United States*, ...do ordain and establish this Constitution *for the United States of America*."

I don't read this as anything even remotely applying to non-US citizens.

Another angle on this issue. If you're assuming everyone in the world has the same rights, then we should allow totally open borders and provide all benefits of US citizenship to the world. This sounds like the charter of the Council on Foreign Relations or Trilateral Commission. One World Utopia!!! (scary as he!! to me)

Now, see there, Surplus. You didn't use the "N" word once in your reply to me. Is't this more fun that way!!