Armed Pilots? Part 135 ops?

msw

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Lots of discussion recently in the media and some web sites on pros and cons of arming airline pilots, mostly Part 121. Does anyone know if NON-SCHED Part 135 On-Demand Charter pilots would be prohibited by any specific regulation from being armed in their cockpit? (For the purposes of this discussion, assume it could be done without violating any State law.) No guesses here folks, quote your regulation or source.
 

avbug

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14 CFR 135.119(b) has always authorized crewmembers to carry arms, with the proviso that the certificate holder must authorize it. Few certificate holders are willing to do this, however.

Other regulations come into play, however. Posession of the firearm inside the airport perimeter is an issue yet to be resolved. I live inside a hangar at an international airport. I keep my firearms in my storage locker, far away from here, as I cannot posses them in the permeter. The hangar door opens onto the flightline, and has immediate access to the flightline. Despite holding a concealed weapon permit and being perfectly legal under state and federal law, as well as having been through fingerprints, security checks and background checks up the yingyang, I can't keep the weapons here (and wouldn't try).

In a worse-case scenario, I'll fall back on the British and Australian police tactic: "Halt! or I'll yell 'halt!', again!"
 

msw

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Armed 135 pilots?

Can you cite the Federal regulation that says that firearms are not allowed inside an "airport perimeter"? I have heard this from others, but no one, even cops I know, seem to be able to quote or find the regulation. I have heard others say it only applies to the "sterile" portion of an airport, i.e. the airline ramp area. Assuming your hangar is not in or near a "sterile" airline ramp area, what rule or regulation makes you think you can't keep a firearm there? And I have also heard that Alaska pilots are REQUIRED to carry a firearm in their planes, along with other mandatory survival gear; which would tend to make me think that there are no general Federal prohibitions against doing so. Comments?
 

avbug

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Federal regulations provide guidance only for universal application. In the case of airports, no federal reguation applied by the USC or CFR provides a prohibition against a firearm or other weapon at an airport generally. However, the airport authority does have this prohibition. The fact that the airport authority is local in nature and not a federal agency means nothing.

It matters not a whit if I'm arrested by local police, or a federal officer. It's still the law.

Yes, a firearm is required in a survival kit in alaska. This is different than carrying a locked and loaded defensive handgun on one's hip, however. One carries a firearm for defensive use againt bear, and for survival (and in some cases signal) purposes. Generally speaking, terrorism in Alaska is slow this time of year.

Federal guidelines apply to establishement and maintenance of the SIDA. My abode isn't in or near the SIDA, but I can't walk down the ramp to the local FBO. I can drive around, and walk in the customer entrance, or I can taxi up. I can't simply go walking on the flight line, unless I wish to be arrested. I can wear my airport ID badge, and show a company crewcard ID, but that and a quarter will buy me a chance to smell the officer's coffee.

I've got a toolbox full of boxcutters, razor blades, scrapers, dikes, twisters, picks and probes, and all manner of other gooides, downstairs but nobody seems interested in that. I have two swords here, nobody seems to care about those. Bring in a measely .45, and one gets all kind of attention. Go figure. Therefore, the guns stay locked up far away, the tool box gets used a lot, and the swords stay out of sight (like I ever get visitors...).

At least I can carry my fingernail files again, for that emergency manicure. One never knows. I still feel naked without a Leatherman. I firmly believe that mankind was being punished for many millenia, and God finally saw fit to end the torment, and inspired the Leatherman. Now after this great moment of light and truth, we have once again been stripped, and must go leathermanless. It's unnatural, and against the true order of things. Besides, my cell phone pulls my belt unevently to one side without it. There is no justice.
 

A Squared

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MSW, Avbug,


Sometime in the last year the law in Alaksa has been changed. You are no longer required to carry a firearm. The 2000 version of the Alaska Statute read:

Sec. 02.35.110. Emergency rations and equipment.

(a) An airman may not make a flight inside the state with an aircraft unless emergency equipment is carried as follows:

(1) the following minimum equipment must be carried during the summer months:

(A) food for each occupant sufficient to sustain life for two weeks;

(B) one axe or hatchet;

(C) one first aid kit;

(D) one pistol, revolver, shotgun, or rifle, and ammunition for same;

(E) one small gill net, and an assortment of tackle such as hooks, flies, lines, sinkers, etc.;

(F) one knife;

(G) two small boxes of matches;

(H) one mosquito headnet for each occupant;



The current version of the statute reads:


Sec. 02.35.110. Emergency rations and equipment.

(a) An airman may not make a flight inside the state with an aircraft unless emergency equipment is carried as follows:

(1) the following minimum equipment must be carried during the summer months:

(A) rations for each occupant sufficient to sustain life for one week;

(B) one axe or hatchet;

(C) one first aid kit;

(D) an assortment of tackle such as hooks, flies, lines, and sinkers;

(E) one knife;

(F) fire starter;

(G) one mosquito headnet for each occupant;

(H) two small signaling devices such as colored smoke bombs, railroad fuses, or Very pistol shells, in sealed metal containers;

We're no longer required to carry gill nets either. Who knows how many salmon have died tragically because of a gill net in the wrong hands.

regards
 

avbug

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Just so long as you have mosquito netting and bug juice. The important stuff. The rest is all fluff, anyway. They don't make firarms big enough to shoot down Alaska mosquitoes.

Gill nets are safe so long as they're treated gingerly, kept in a sealed container, and the user carries his or her ID clearly exposed on the outermost garment. Just knowing they're no longer mandated has probably done wonders for fish's emotional well being, everywhere.
 

flying_gringo

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it was a long time ago...

but when I was flying bank work on an cash run we were required to carry a firearm on the plane... we were met by armored cars and surrounded by guys with guns... and if they wanted they could check to ensure that we had our weapon onboard.

it was a long while ago, but it was between three international airports, and with full consent of the local authorities... there was some additional paperwork onboard but I don't remember much about that...

but if this is still done today - who knows... go find an underpaid freight dog. they would know.
 

Checks

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AvBug,

Where to you keep that Monkey?

Does he have a security badge?
 

avbug

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No badge. I tried to pin it on, but it bit me. Nothing like a little monkey love to make the rabies shine.

He is armed, though.

I'd go after him for unlawful interference with a crewmember, but I'm afraid they'd find for the monkey. He's more qualified, and a whole lot more competitive. If only I had a tail.

We haven't touched on 14 CFR Parts 107, 108, or 109 yet, but these do apply a great many restrictions on the carraige or posession of weapons inside the airport perimeter, or in areas accessable to secure areas.
 
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