Any news at F9?

[M3pilot]

Gup,

I appreciate the explanation and where you are coming from.

It was only recently where we've seen people leave after being on property a whole three months, citing concerns for their family and job stability, etc. Now, if we had some indication that our jobs were in jeapordy that would be understandable, but I call B.S. on that. It is guesswork at best - anyone who has spent any time in this industry knows that. They wasted precious training dollars, time, resources, etc. by "trying" F9 out for a while until something better came along.

In no way am I insinuating that is what you did, but they left with a condescending tone disguised behind false well-wishes. Those sentiments are becoming more common and I think that is what gets old.

I wasn't there when Addoms was at the helm, but I know a lot about him and his style - even before F9. He is a good man with a very conservative approach to doing business (like you said; that's the banker in him).

Potter was more of a politician but but that's not all bad. I tend to disagree with you about him, due to a few things: Yes he went to Vanguard and things went south there. He was Sam's prodigy though, and it can be argued that he learned a lot from the Vanguard experience. Sam also trained him and taught him a lot in the time he was there and eventually back at F9. I think Potter did a pretty darn good job navigating the airline through the 9/11 storm. I didn't see any of the legacies taking voluntary pay cuts to keep folks on property. Potter deserves some credit for taking the airline from where it was to where it stood September 6th of this year. Maybe the airline outgrew him, but he served it at a time and size where he was needed. Much of what he did will not be reflected in quarterly earnings or stock prices, and many would argue that the airline and industry are beyond his abilities.

Perhaps there's some truth to that and I think he knew that when he made the decision to resign. I guess we'll all see what happens next in an era of a different storm - cutthroat fares and soaring fuel prices, not to mention Mile High operating costs out of DEN. Enter Sean Menke...

I agree that there is a lot of business to go around, but until the industry pulls out of this race to the bottom and works together to restore value to the product and service we offer, we'll all be victims of this ridiculous cutthroat era. By that I mean predatory pricing. Is it possible that the industry will see this turnaround? Sure. Probable? I will remain hopeful.

Like you, I push the levers forward and wait until it calls me a retard to pull them back. At the end of the day I'm amazed and grateful that they pay me to do it. We all share that passion I think, and a mutual respect, I hope.

Thanks for the commentary.

Safe skies,

M3

 

[Jetboy]

It was only recently where we've seen people leave after being on property a whole three months, citing concerns for their family and job stability, etc.

Recently like right now? I know of a few F9 pilots swimming in the LUV pool. In my opinion, there really is no comparison between the two. One is profitable, one is not. One has stood the test of time, one has not. One has several bases, one does not. One pays well, one does not. I am not trying to bash F9, because I know it sounds like I am. I am just saying holding animosity towards anyone leaving Frontier for SWA is a bit foolish and naive.

 

[Shrek]

I can't sit idle any longer. Please don't condescend to F9. Frankly we don't need it to feel ok about our jobs. We're doing just fine in Denver and will continue to do so. BTW, SWA is losing $20M a year in DEN using a model of doing business that they've never used before. Interesting to say the least.

But it appears that a big vat of the same kool-aid that was served to UAL 14 years ago regarding F9 in DEN is being proffered to the ranks of SWA. One paramount difference glares though; F9 was here before SWA.

And...none of us believes that you left F9 for SWA because it is no longer "Sam's airline". You went for greener grass. I hope you truly found it. But don't kid us, or yourself for that matter.

We've been duped by a few fence-jumpers lately who were'nt as sincere as I hope your decisions are based on. But the "sorry guys, but management wants to crush you guys" thing is getting rather old... <yawn> Don't reduce it to cutesy terms like 'scrappiness' - for it is based on much more than that. If you were at all invested here you understand that.

You can just feel the throng of local SWA pilots wringing their hands with a twinkle in their eye as they dream about a new DEN base, devoid of the "little thorn in their side" known as F9...

An unusually high percentage of individuals at this company truly cherish the opportunity to go to work each day and feel strongly so thereabout, that they will do damn near anything to keep that spirit alive. I am one of those individuals; and I have the privilege of working among them. We have pride; we have an awesome team; we have a superior product; we care about one another and in turn - our customers... and that my friends is a powerful recipe for what is known in our industry as a commodity. The local community embraces that fact; not because we throw money at corporate entities with flashy sponsorship offers and silly 'ding' commercials aimed at the wal-mart-style clientele, but a true-to-heart, 'we believed in this town when nobody else did, embracing approach to taking care of our own - from company - to employee - to customer - to community style of doing business. We will not engage in a race to the bottom for greed's sake or any other. We believe in a more professional and realistic, responsible way of doing business which allows for fair, profitable pricing, restoring respect and value to air travel, and genuinely caring for our customers.

I know SWA has a reputation for partying, schmoozing the FAA, and generally creating a 'fun' culture, and I respect many aspects of that. What I will not stand for, however as a peer in this business is the condescending tone that seems so rampant lately. Please, if you can't respectfully acknowledge us as a professional, viable competitor and a native of DEN and CO in general, don't say anything at all. We are proud to employ 4,000 individuals in the Front Range area. We have taken great care of those folks and our passengers. We know your market cap; we know who you are; but don't insult us. We're happy for our own reasons, but we're not ignorant. We don't need your premature/undue sympathy...

Best of luck to you and I hope we mutually enjoy success and fair winds wherever our compasses take us.

M3

Go get em brutha.

 

[M3pilot]

Recently like right now? I know of a few F9 pilots swimming in the LUV pool. In my opinion, there really is no comparison between the two. One is profitable, one is not. One has stood the test of time, one has not. One has several bases, one does not. One pays well, one does not. I am not trying to bash F9, because I know it sounds like I am. I am just saying holding animosity towards anyone leaving Frontier for SWA is a bit foolish and naive.

On what data do you submit that F9 has not stood the test of time, and does not pay well? 14 years is no splash in the bucket and the salaries are very competitive for the peer group.

I don't hold animosity either, but leaving a company without honoring a training contract does not demonstrate good faith. Disappointed is a better term. And...knowing how long people are sitting in the pool at SWA, to leave now indicates a strong possibility of having had an application on file or an interview prior to F9 interviewing. That question is asked in F9 interviews and in the cases cited, the answer given was no.

Regarding profitability, all I can say is we each do our best and I for one hold that hope for everyone in this business.

Regards,

M3

 

[Zinger]

M3Pilot,

You stated "BTW, SWA is losing $20M a year in DEN using a model of doing business that they've never used before." Was this line given to you by your management, by chance?

Please substantiate that claim and cite the source. Thank you.

Frontier has a great product and I respect their company. Nobody at SWA wishes Frontier's demise. From all I understand, DEN is the second fastest growing city at SWA (PHL was first) and that the break even time period well exceeded their expectations....less than three months.

 

[Cardinal]

From all I understand, DEN is the second fastest growing city at SWA (PHL was first) and that the break even time period well exceeded their expectations....less than three months.

Please substantiate that claim and cite the source. Thank you.

As my earlier post addressed, we're all just trading kool-aid, and have no real facts to work on. Which is why it's silly to claim dogmaticly that anybody is getting their arse handed to them.

Further, to Jetboy, you might be surprised at our pay. For similar equipment our pay is inline with CAL, AA, etc, and handily exceeds UA and NW. That is coupled with one of the most pilot-friendly scheduling sections in the industry.

 

[Zinger]

Cardinal,

I'm simply asking M3Pilot to clarify his statement. He stated it as a fact. I passed along my understanding of things...that's why I prefaced it saying just that. No ill will here.

 

[GuppyWN]

How about we meet at the bar. I'll buy drinks for all the Frontier dudes and we'll toast to BOTH of our futures.

Gup

 

[M3pilot]

Cardinal,

I'm simply asking M3Pilot to clarify his statement. He stated it as a fact. I passed along my understanding of things...that's why I prefaced it saying just that. No ill will here.

Several SWA folks here corroberate the fact that there aren't positive numbers coming from DEN right now. It may be true that they expect this loss building their business there but the fact remains. My comment was simply to illustrate that they historically haven't done that. That and it doesn't really indicate "one of their best markets". That's all.

-break-

Gup - you buy the first round and I got the next.

 

[goofyfoot]

Are the schedules mostly out and backs?