Air Force to UAL New Hire

[AirCobra]

Your going to rethink this.

Go look at the accident rate for part 121 women compared to men. Sorry, but it's heavily slanted against your argument that "they are the same".

Are you serious!

Men have been exclusively crashing planes for over 100 years, maybe they shouldn't be allowed to fly either. With so few women pilots any accident involving a woman is going to screw up the percentages. I don't remember the woman being at fault in the Colgan accident or are you trying to say she was somehow to blame. Did the female captain cause the fire the ValuJet accident?

 

[AirCobra]

Trip, you could take away all the girls and minorities and still have 9/10 jobs

Actually its more like 19 of 20.

Like you though Trip suffers a perception problem. Civilian pilots still outnumber military pilots at SWA 55% to 45%.

 

[pilotyip]

As it has been said many times, if you want head of the line previledges at the majors, go militarty. It may not be fair, they may not be the best pilots in the world, and some may feel they have an "attitude", but it is a fact of life. You just have to get over it, or get it put in your CBA that the company can not hire military pilots.

 

[Tripower455]

Well you post shows you haven't really given it much thought, yet you pronounce the days of inequality are over. A bit of a contradiction don't you think?

I haven't been in the job market for about 20 years. Is UAL still practicing discriminatory hiring? I know that they relaxed their standards and hired a bunch of unqualified white guys like me in the late '90's, but they were desperate for warm bodies, and couldn't be quite as discriminating.

It has everything to do with United. You said those days are over, problem solved. Well that is not exactly reality.

Really? Is UAL still practicing discriminatory hiring?

You made it seem like it was some sort of widespread problem when the selection rate was 4%.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was a widespread problem, because it wasn't, as it was more or less one airline that was well known for it.

You are angry and bitter over 4%.

I'm not angry or bitter over 4% or anything else at this point. I do, however, find it incredulous that you are defending a modern company's discriminatory hiring practices, where the minimum requirements change, based solely on the color of your skin or sex. How is that OK?

 

[Tripower455]

Again all you are going on is your perception.

What are you going on?

Were you even in the business at the time?

This is not a perception issue, as it was well known and universally loathed, well, except by the chosen ones.

United took in over 32,000 applications and hired apx. 1,400 so a lot of you friends got turned down, not because of their skin color or gender but because they didn't have a whole lot of positions open.

LOL... Really? They only hired 1400 pilots in a decade?

We never even got interviews, BECAUSE of our gender or skin color, while people of the "correct" gender/race were getting them with exponentially less experience.

The fact that we were civilian might've played a part in their "point" system too. 7000 hours were required for a white male commuter type to get an interview in the early '90's. The few I know that met these requirements and actually got to interview were not hired. The UAL interview was more or less considered as interview practice.

My favorite UAL story is from a friend of mine, who's of Norwegian descent. For those not familiar with Norwegian names, his gender might not be apparent by reading it. He gets a phone call one day from UAL to schedule an interview. They asked for him by name, and he said "This is he", and they hung up.

Another good one..... There was a UAL JFK Chief pilot that used to ride our jumpseat from BDL to JFK and back, several times a week. I was flying with a female FO, (the one I mentioned earlier that turned down UAL). On one of the trips, we had to do a Cat 2 down to mins in JFK. When we parked the airplane, the CP enthusiastically and un offered to write HER a letter of recommendation, saying that they were looking for pilots like her and went on for about 5 minutes, taking all her info. As he turned to leave, I asked if he'd write one for me too, and he grudgingly agreed and gave me his card. She had a letter within a week. I called him several times and he wouldn't even get on the phone. I even had one of the ORD Director of Flight ops call him, and it did nothing, since I wasn't "qualified" (with nearly 4 times the experience of the aforementioned FO) for the interview.

Of those 1400, they still hired 91% white males. Are you going to tell me 91% is unfair and discriminatory hiring?

Are you going to tell me that having different and lower minimums for certain people based solely on sex or race is fair, and isn't discriminatory hiring?

It's the definition of discrimination.

 

[Sluggo_63]

Where do you get the 55/45 number bubba?

http://www.airforcetimes.com/articl.../Commercial-pilot-job-market-ready-for-a-boom

Third section down, under the subheading "A perennial source for many airlines is the military."

About 45 percent of the 6,100 pilots at Southwest Airlines are veterans or reservists, many of whom are former airmen, according to Rocky Calkins, a former F-15 pilot who now is Southwest's pilot hiring manager.

 

[sat74]

Every female FO from the regional I worked at in 2000 was hired by a major while barely having 2500 hours and zero jet pic. Some were quite capable, others were horrible. Go figure.

 

[Tripower455]

Every female FO from the regional I worked at in 2000 was hired by a major while barely having 2500 hours and zero jet pic. Some were quite capable, others were horrible. Go figure.

So, discriminatory hiring was still going on in 2000? I guess AC is correct!

 

[SWA Bubba]

http://www.airforcetimes.com/articl.../Commercial-pilot-job-market-ready-for-a-boom

Third section down, under the subheading "A perennial source for many airlines is the military."

For Wave-

I stand corrected: It's actually MORE than 55% of our pilot force that is civilian-trained, and possibly a lot more. The "45% military" stat includes veterans and reservists who aren't/weren't necessarily military pilots. Part of Capt Calkins' quote (emphasis mine):

About 45 percent of the 6,100 pilots at Southwest Airlines are veterans or reservists, many of whom are former airmen...
​

So that "45% military" number includes all the civilian-trained pilots who served a few enlisted years, and those who might be in the reserves, even in a non-flying job, on the side. Satisfied yet? Or since you stated you wanted "equal" representation for civilian-trained pilots, that means we're gonna' have to hire a whole lot more military-trained guys to catch up!

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Trip, you could take away all the girls and minorities and still have 9/10 jobs

That's a lot different than military backgrounds taking up 87% of a class

Pssssst! Wave!

(I think you meant "women." I've been told that women hate being referred to by men as "girls." They say it demeans what they've accomplished. Don't want you to get in trouble.... )

Bubba