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ACA, Moore, ALPA,oh my

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tarp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Posts
539
Well that didn't last very long.

I thought old Tom (Moore) had turned in his Tiger stripes for a more cuddly calico type demeanor - but he's after us again!

[For those outside the company, Tom has these "dial-a-president" hotline messages every week.]

This week Tom dresses down the ALPA union for presenting outrageous demands for 737-800/Airbus wages. He quotes us a being 60% (or some such nonsense) over major carriers and way out of proportion to JetBlue rates (which I guess he sees as the game we should emulate).

Of course, Tom has 12 to 15 year veterans of the CRJ waiting and chomping at the bit for narrowbody wage scales - he does not have the luxury of a JetBlue who I guess doesn't even know what a 5-year captain looks like. So I'm thinking that Tom is disappointed that a 12 year veteran of ACA isn't willing to accept a new hire wage scale on the bigger plane. His reasoning (IMHO) must be that if a CRJ captain is happy at $80/hr after working 13 years for the company, then that same captain will be completely willing to fly a brand new narrowbody for $85/hr. And I bet he thinks that our senior FO's will love flying the new big plane for $42/hr. Yep, that'll make ACA a low-cost carrier. It will also make us the "Mesa" of the Nationals/Majors. (Another reminder to non-aviation readers - we only can work 1000hrs per year - $42/hr equal $42,000/year salary to fly a 130-150 seat airplane!)

But the thing that irks me the most is to publicly denounce the pilots as some kind of money grabbing self-centered group set on killing the Project Independence celebration. Tom to tell a ramper or gate agent that our 14 year veteran pilots will be making 60% more than a new hire on the same plane elsewhere is just deception and lies. Sure would like an apology letter or hotline message pointing out the one-to-one comparison of our new hire rates to the other carrier's new hire rates and the one-to-one comparison of our veteran rates to their veteran rates. I bet we aren't 60% higher, in fact I'm willing to bet we aren't higher at all!

For Project Independence to work, we need to learn to play nice with each other and share our toys just like they teach in grade school. If some in the class are going to be bullies and play the "no it's mine!" game, then we are just going to have to put the toys back in box and send everybody to the corners for a time-out. (So glad that ACA People living the ACA Way with ACA Pride are acting like ACA Adults!)
 
ACA would like to move from the arena of risk free revenue to at-risk revenue. If you don’t give them the chance in beginning, you are done.

How does one start an airline with 15-year employees wanting 12-year LUV pay rates?

They don’t.

Startup airlines pay first year wages to everyone. You guys are trying to start a new airline with the same old employees. That is one reason the odds are against you. Deal with it and in the long run you will have half a chance of making it. If you don’t deal with it, an independent ACA will never fly.

Splert
 
Splert

You are a Jack***! I agree we might not have a chance but it is not because of the Pilots. Its F'd up leadership. If they want to play with the big boys, they are going to have to pay with the big boys or atleast in the same league.
 
ACA hopes to one day grow up to be in the same league as LUV, Alaska, JetBlue, AirTran or even ATA. Today, you are not even off the nipple of UAL. ACA is right now a losing proposition.

You are right it not just pilots. It’s everyone at ACA that needs to understand that those “F’d” up managers of yours are trying to start a new airline with same ol’ employees.

I wish you guys luck.

Splert
 
In regards to both comments you both are correct. In the beginning there has to be some type of "give." The question is who? And why not both. The answer: TRUST. We as a pilot group have little trust in TM. He has a tendency to reword the truth to benefit mgmt. When bonuses and and options are contiunely paid while a pilot will have to take a paycut a red flag goes up.

For instance TM went on a little road show stating one thing when in reality technically it was not the truth.

In retrospec one should not be expected to be paid a rate without proving its worthiness. All in all it is a starting point for the bargininng. Mgmt starts low... labor starts high. The agreement is in the middle. Then it goes for a vote.

I for one will vote no if a wage cut is proposed in order to recieve a higher wage for narrow bodies. This in my opinion is everyones main concern.

Both of you are correct. Take it easy on each other we all want the best. If you want to get pissed off thank MESA for making it that much harder. Happy flying.
 
19.99/hr for 737

segment pay only

8 days off.

us airway guy in the right seat making 150.00/hr

block or better

20 days off.
 
His message to the company is very anti-pilot. What the #ell? The company wide voice-mail he publically denounces the entire pilot group, and personally, I'm very offended not only as a professional pilot, but as a company employee as well. Flying a 737/Airbus at RJ rates is an outrage. If management can't make a profit at jetBlue/SWA/airTran rates, maybe we should close shop and call it a day.

Master Yoda says...."New Chief Operating Officer....we must have..."

We have a great company with a lot going for it....but there is a sith among us....
 
Last edited:
I heard that message and couldn't figure out what apples and oranges he was comparing. Thank you for the explanation. You're right about TM making the pilots the whipping boys of the company. So much for company solidarity. I don't have current figures for JBLU, but I know that ACA rampers and CSR's make more than their counterparts at WN. Starting pay at BWI is $8.75 on the ramp. JBLU when they were advertising their rates (when times were good, now they say "competitive") is somewhere around $11 or $12 per hour.
 

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