AA Contract Proposal

[ackattacker]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-15/american-offers-pilot-contract-calls-for-union-vote.html

Looks like creates a B-Scale for sub 125 seaters, but also improves scope.

Of course it includes the expanded code share which AA has been pushing for.

Any idea if it'll even go to vote?

 

[Neubyfly]

It wont go to vote.

 

[XTW]

No,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no and no!

X

 

[shon7]

whats the other option - chap 11?

 

[johnsonrod]

Phil Lebouw on CNBC just said that AMR pilots would probably not take a pay cut now when a trip to Chapter 11 could be inevitable (where another pay cut would be likely from the lower rate). Looks like the stock is tanking due to predictions of Chap 11 in the near future...

Based on what I've seen, I wouldn't agree to anything now - I'd wait for Chap 11 to keep your current pay base as the negotiating level.

 

[jester757]

Phil Lebouw on CNBC just said that AMR pilots would probably not take a pay cut now when a trip to Chapter 11 could be inevitable (where another pay cut would be likely from the lower rate). Looks like the stock is tanking due to predictions of Chap 11 in the near future...

Based on what I've seen, I wouldn't agree to anything now - I'd wait for Chap 11 to keep your current pay base as the negotiating level.

This is a great point - we did this at DAL and took chap 11 cuts after we gave twice which SUCKED.

 

[aa73]

whats the other option - chap 11?

Well, let's see. We saved their a$$es from BK in 2003 with the current POS contract we have now. And today - SEVEN YEARS LATER - they're right back where they were in 2003. Of course! It's the pilots' fault!

If that doesn't spell MANAGEMENT INCOMPETENCE, I don't know what does. Everyone knows they are headed to BK anyway. I'll be darned if I'm giving one more iota to those goons. Let the Judge take it all away!

NO to Contract Offer
YES to Strike
FUPM!!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Well, let's see. We saved their a$$es from BK in 2003 with the current POS contract we have now. And today - SEVEN YEARS LATER - they're right back where they were in 2003. Of course! It's the pilots' fault!

If that doesn't spell MANAGEMENT INCOMPETENCE, I don't know what does.

NO to Contract Offer
YES to Strike
FUPM!!

You can't have it both ways, either you can save bankruptcy with a concessionary contract (pilots do factor into bankruptcy), or a concessionary contract will not matter (pilots do not factor into the bankruptcy).

I don't have a dog in the fight. People just always spout off about how our salaries don't make or break the company. If that's true, then we also can't "save" the company by offering concessions.

 

[aa73]

You can't have it both ways, either you can save bankruptcy with a concessionary contract (pilots do factor into bankruptcy), or a concessionary contract will not matter (pilots do not factor into the bankruptcy).

I don't have a dog in the fight. People just always spout off about how our salaries don't make or break the company. If that's true, then we also can't "save" the company by offering concessions.

ASA - We gave them relief in 2003 BY PROVIDING MASSIVE CONCESSIONS. Did that give them sustained profitability? NO.
Now, 7 years later, they are in the same boat due to INCOMPETENT MANAGEMENT AND A BROKEN BUSINESS MODEL.

We could take another 50% pay cut AND THEY'D STILL LOSE MONEY!

It is not our job to save them from BK! They will file regardless of what we get, if they choose that route.

 

[magrs]

Good on ya AA73..now only if the rest of the bunch would follow this lead, perhaps we can regain some semblance of a career!

Arpey will be gone if they declare IMO, adn the pilots will fare much better in BK court given their previous concessions. While I don't think APA will even come close to their requested 30%, a nice 15% across the board raise will help ease the bankruptcy pains. By the way, with them even offering up the 3-1-1-1, they paint themselves into a corner where "we can't afford any raises" loses all credibility.

In BK court, they'll;

Dump the pensions (good thing)
renogiate leases and such (good thing)
dump management (one can hope...good thing)
get scope leniency (good and bad)