10/250

[msculley6905]

How's the job in management working out for ya? Be sure to thank us for the raise when we get it for you.

Non-pilot employee, yes...Far from management. But thanks for playing.

 

[fischman]

Non-pilot employee, yes...Far from management. But thanks for playing.

HA!

Here's yer sign...

 

[jetlag7]

...I'm sure this is the feeling among non-pilot types. making $250k after 10 years of anything outside of sports/medicine/law, etc. is fantasy to many......

Professional pilots employed at less profitable companies with training, experience and qualifications similar to our group make that kind of money for a lot less work and effort...

 

[billybob]

There is no management at Nja. Just a move theater with a few dudes screwing around and a sticky floor. The employees are keeping the ship upright

 

[CE750Driver]

Gut,

The answer is "B".

The company posted a $223 million profit for 2012 AND paid down $500 million in debt. These numbers aren't secret. They are in the SEC filing.

Oh yeah, the 95.6% owner approval rating for the pilots is THE LOWEST it has ever been.

In other words, we are awesome. The company has made a poop ton of money on operations alone, and we are selling the poop out of the Phenoms and Globals. Wait to see what happens when the Challengers show up. Mr. Buffet won't know what to do with all the money.

10/$250 is the bottom line, not the starting point. 10/$249,999 is a NO VOTE.

So, let's hear some of the common excuses...

"There's NO WAY you'll get paid $250,000 to fly a CE560. NBAA rates are $140,000 max."

OK. How much does a Part 91 CE560 driver fly a year? 200 hours? 250 hours? for $140,000? OK. I flew 630 hours last year for $120,000. So hour to hour, dollar to dollar, a 200 hour pilot at $140,00 would equate to $420,000 worth of flight. Even if the guy flew 300 hours a year, it would equate to more than $280,000 for the amount I have been flying.

"The owners will never support that kind of salary."

Really? Why would the owners even need to notice a difference? Why would the company even have to charge the owners more? Did you see the INSANE amount of money we made? Did you see the amount of debt we paid off? SWA guys make that kind of coin and the company still manged to post a $73 million profit. Oh yeah, they have a larger seniority list too. Berkshire will just have to get their money a little slower.

How many Travelodge's does the 91 guy stay in?

How many crappy D8b's does he eat?

How many times does he even GET A CHANCE to workout? Every day? The only way I can fit in a workout is if I call in fatigued.

I helped subsidize NetJets Europe with the crap salary we made before 2005. I am not going to subsidize China.

So yeah. I deserve the 10/$250. I work hard. I work safely. The owners LOVE me. The company can EASILY afford it (re: $223 million profit. $500 million in debt. Making that money on operations alone-new planes selling well).

The only reason we won't get that money is if we say we aren't worth it. I am.

Umm. 78 million was Southwests 4th quarter profit. 480 million for the year of 2012.

You also need to look at net, and pre tax profit.

We do need a significant raise though, I agree.

 

[NJAowner]

Fisch -- I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, or say it isn't good to shoot for the stars, but there are way too many people who will fly for low wages instead of work in an office or elsewhere for the 10/250 to work on a large scale. Sorry.

And don't believe the approval rating. I was recently at an owners' event and the talk over snacks (yes hors douveres and other things have been eliminated at owners' events) amongst many owners was not about how wonderful the company was. But we all agreed the pilots were great and you were absolutely awesome.

BTW -- these events used be be attended by senior management and very very very senior management who would help reassure owners. Other than an "event coordinator" this event looked staffed by summer interns. Also-- any owners survey is suspect -- I have not received any survey on any kind since 2009 (neither has any owner I know). We used to get fairly regular surveys as well as random flight surveys.

 

[G4dude]

Gut,

The answer is "B".

The company posted a $223 million profit for 2012 AND paid down $500 million in debt. These numbers aren't secret. They are in the SEC filing.

Oh yeah, the 95.6% owner approval rating for the pilots is THE LOWEST it has ever been.

In other words, we are awesome. The company has made a poop ton of money on operations alone, and we are selling the poop out of the Phenoms and Globals. Wait to see what happens when the Challengers show up. Mr. Buffet won't know what to do with all the money.

10/$250 is the bottom line, not the starting point. 10/$249,999 is a NO VOTE.

So, let's hear some of the common excuses...

"There's NO WAY you'll get paid $250,000 to fly a CE560. NBAA rates are $140,000 max."

OK. How much does a Part 91 CE560 driver fly a year? 200 hours? 250 hours? for $140,000? OK. I flew 630 hours last year for $120,000. So hour to hour, dollar to dollar, a 200 hour pilot at $140,00 would equate to $420,000 worth of flight. Even if the guy flew 300 hours a year, it would equate to more than $280,000 for the amount I have been flying.

"The owners will never support that kind of salary."

Really? Why would the owners even need to notice a difference? Why would the company even have to charge the owners more? Did you see the INSANE amount of money we made? Did you see the amount of debt we paid off? SWA guys make that kind of coin and the company still manged to post a $73 million profit. Oh yeah, they have a larger seniority list too. Berkshire will just have to get their money a little slower.

How many Travelodge's does the 91 guy stay in?

How many crappy D8b's does he eat?

How many times does he even GET A CHANCE to workout? Every day? The only way I can fit in a workout is if I call in fatigued.

I helped subsidize NetJets Europe with the crap salary we made before 2005. I am not going to subsidize China.

So yeah. I deserve the 10/$250. I work hard. I work safely. The owners LOVE me. The company can EASILY afford it (re: $223 million profit. $500 million in debt. Making that money on operations alone-new planes selling well).

The only reason we won't get that money is if we say we aren't worth it. I am.

I agree, but what if our employer can't compete? We will lose our jobs in that case, while being SO glad we were paid what we were worth. I hope I am wrong, but an Industry Leading Contract would make me very nervous.

 

[B747Flyer]

All I can say is "good luck"...

 

[fischman]

Fisch -- I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, or say it isn't good to shoot for the stars, but there are way too many people who will fly for low wages instead of work in an office or elsewhere for the 10/250 to work on a large scale. Sorry.

And don't believe the approval rating. I was recently at an owners' event and the talk over snacks (yes hors douveres and other things have been eliminated at owners' events) amongst many owners was not about how wonderful the company was. But we all agreed the pilots were great and you were absolutely awesome.

BTW -- these events used be be attended by senior management and very very very senior management who would help reassure owners. Other than an "event coordinator" this event looked staffed by summer interns. Also-- any owners survey is suspect -- I have not received any survey on any kind since 2009 (neither has any owner I know). We used to get fairly regular surveys as well as random flight surveys.

NJAowner,

There are a great deal of pilots out of work, no doubt. However, and this is spewing hubris, there is a difference between being a pilot and being a NetJets pilot. Not everyone can do what we do, and do it well. If they were to replace us with scabs, I predict owners will leave in droves. It is supply and demand, and the supply in that regard is low.

The approval rating is for the pilots only. 96.5% of the owners think the pilots are awesome. That metric is the lowest it has ever been. Personally, I think it is low because the owners are taking their frustrations in the company out on us. But that is alright. We are used to being the punching bags. We are the only ones who are held accountable. We are the ones looking the owners in the face. We are the ones who routinely turn crappy situations (for whatever reason) into the times of their lives. It is what we do, for more than 1/2 of what we deserve.

Like I said, I see no reason why the owners would have to notice a change. The company can afford our salary easily.

Fisch

 

[OPECJet]

I agree, but what if our employer can't compete? We will lose our jobs in that case, while being SO glad we were paid what we were worth. I hope I am wrong, but an Industry Leading Contract would make me very nervous.

G, you're on an industry leading contract right now and the company is thriving. The trick is to find the middle ground where the pilots thrive at the same level as the company.

10/250 sure sounds nice, but I don't think it's realistic based on our peer groups. If / when negotiations go to arbitration, an arbitrator is likely to roll eyes at a concessionary proposal from the company given the amount of money they're making. He's also going to roll his eyes at 10/250 given the peer level comparison.

NJAOwner, I'm sorry to hear about these owner / management gatherings. I think most pilots are rather disgusted with the cost cutting approaches used by current management. Hopefully Hansell will be gone after negotiations are over and a higher level of service returns. Provided he doesn't sink the company in the process....