You'll be moved...

[shanes123]

This is not new. Why you think we have a union. Pilot pushing and intimidation has always been the CULTure at flops. This is just a different form of it.

 

[NJAowner]

Yes - I realize all that a sales rep says is not fact. But I also realize planes go into unscheduled maintenance and don't fly. The businessman in me says that operationally it must be quite expensive to have dedicated crews who don't have anything else to do when a jet is not flying - unless you hit the pilot's time off.

 

[el raton]

Yes - I realize all that a sales rep says is not fact. But I also realize planes go into unscheduled maintenance and don't fly. The businessman in me says that operationally it must be quite expensive to have dedicated crews who don't have anything else to do when a jet is not flying - unless you hit the pilot's time off.

When a Domestic Red Label aircraft is not flying, the crew usually goes to an "open fleet" aircraft. Or the pilots float to another aircraft. We're running lean on the Flexjet side, meaning there's enough airplanes for the pilots.

One more thing, if the airplane is broke, and it can't be deferred, its grounded. The Red Label rules are favorable to the pilots both financially and in quality of life. I would expect this will be our new future.

 

[shanes123]

Translation. There is no dedicated crews it's marketing Bull********************. Dedicated means dedicated. You don't float around to other planes. Again not new KR tried this years ago and it failed miserably.

Second. Fly broke and get a Bonus. That's why these crews where hand picked no regard for safety or the rules. Again this was tried with the mechanics years ago. Sign off planes get them green and get a Bonus. It was a total disaster

Sceniorio: this has happened numerous times before. G captain lives in NY his airplane is in CA. Another G captain lives in CA his plane is in NY. Two airline tickets and a day of down time on two planes to move crews to their dedicated plane. Not smart on any level. This has happened numerous times in the past dedicated crewing was a total disaster.

 

[NJAowner]

If I recall correctly, last time (circa 2000) the dedicated crewing was because there were many inconsistencies in the flight deck along the same jets in the same fleet since they were all picked up used.

I agree with Shanes that if a pilot moves to an open fleet than he does not fly just 1 tail.

In the long run I do not think that owners will pay extra for "dedicated crewing". It is very expensive.

 

[SDCFI]

What the sales team does have a pretty good idea about, in general, is management's wishful thinking.

So if a salesman said it, it's a pretty good bet someone on high somewhere, told him what their vision of the perfect program looks like.

And that should scare the auschwitz pants right off of you.

On some level you know Kenn is just looking for a way to be able to have us sleep on the planes. Rules and safety are a pesky nuisance to people like him. If you don't think he'd love the threat of forced pto to keep those planes running, fit or not, you've been sleeping for 3 years.

No argument here, just pointing out as of right now that info is not correct. Also keep in mind all our promotional material lists the Lear 75 as red label, and we all know that's def not the case, at least as far as crewing.

And NJAowner: you didn't mention if it was domestic or international red label they were trying to sell you. International is true dedicated crew, all Captains assigned to a single tail. Domestic is 3 Captains that only man the left seat with fleet FOs in the right, so it's not even true dedicated crewing. There are always a few people who will pay more for what they perceive, or are led to believe anyway, is a premium service. Will it be enough to sustain red label in the long run? Don't think you'll find a lot of optimism on that one.

 

[Imissmypilot]

When a Domestic Red Label aircraft is not flying, the crew usually goes to an "open fleet" aircraft. Or the pilots float to another aircraft. We're running lean on the Flexjet side, meaning there's enough airplanes for the pilots.

And it is this very concept that is angering some of the first converts to the program who were promised a very different life.

Fact is Red label is a shim sham smokescreen meant to sell more standard shares at higher prices, divide pilots and provide a safe haven for the most loyal of FoKs until he could get them back into sweet positions.

Based on NJAOwners posts, it sounds like the customers are smart enough to figure it out they're being duped. What's your excuse?

 

[notapilot]

I just talked to a non Red Label captain who said he just finished flying a Red Label aircraft with a non Red Label first officer. Not only aren't the Red Label crews always flying their own tail, in certain cases non Red Label pilots are flying those planes under the Red Label banner. Do owners get a refund when this happens? Do they even know if this happens? At a minimum the program is designed so that there will be one non dedicated Red Label pilot flying. How is this so special? I can see the possibility of a Red Label program where the aircraft may be highly upgraded, but a pilot in Red Label is no different than a pilot in non Red Label. The crewing aspect of Red Label is a game to cause chaos amongst pilots.

 

[doh]

Imiss, I think you'll find the long term goal is to tell the red label guys: "we don't have an available right seater, you guys have to crew it". And that's when the real shim sham will become clear. It's not about anything but reducing costs.

 

[NJAowner]

Domestic. No mention of the "fleet FOs" (how is that different from non-Red Label. I was told the Lear 75 program is dead. But Red Label aircraft will have cool, unique interiors. A lot of the "Red Label" seems to appeal to the first time fractional buyer. After a few years and the novelty of owning a plane wears off, the share is just about transportation. Then it becomes about having clean, well maintained, reliable, on-time air transportation with GOOD RECOVERY times. A Red Label interior does not mean much when I need to wait 8 hours for a plane (one of the reasons I returned to NJ).