Owning vs Fractional??

[PilotKitch]

Looking for opinions from people who may have been through this exercise and have the other side of the story which the sales guy does NOT mention.

We have a Part 91 GIV that averages 200 hrs per year, single owner that is 100% leisure travel.

His is considering a 1/16 share (50 hrs) on both a GIV and GV with Netjets and 1/8 share (100 hrs) on a Challenger 300 with Flex.

It appears the package that they have put in front of him is showing a substantial enough savings to be able to get used to different crews, aircraft, etc.

What kind of back-end charges can he expect with the fractionals? The majority of our flying has been domestic with 1.5-2.5 hr legs, with 2-3 Europe trips mixed in per year.

Looking to justify our existence here since the sales guys never bring up the disadvantages with duty times, scheduling, fuel surcharge, etc. He also has 3 large (80-90) dogs that travel with him most of the time that the sales rep says will NOT be an issue. (True/False)

The more feedback the better.......

 

[Gulfstream 200]

From my limited experience:

When it comes down to it, you can either afford to own an airplane or you cant.

The owners of our airplane looked at and did demos on fractionals and came out perplexed as to why anyone would ever buy into one..fuel surcharges, ratty beat up planes, substitute planes, unknown crews etc...the answer is USUALLY that they cant afford their own plane (a 100% luxury item, no matter what crap NBAA spews) The old line of not having to worry about the headaches of running your own department is solved by hiring good people who work directly for you - to those who can afford it.

Older aircraft are losing value fast and can get expensive to run with unpredictable costs. This scares people after a few years of bills.

For example - if one bought a brand new G550 2-3 years ago you could have possibly seen enough in appreciation to date to run it for free (on paper)...but try that with 90% of the used aircraft out there and you would have lost a fortune. Add in the headaches of owning an aircraft out of warranty etc..adds up quick. Next thing you know they are searching for charter revenue, fractionals etc...

He knows the numbers and his financial situation better than you, sometimes this is already out of your hands. Good Luck!

 

[ElCid88]

Have your owner's financial person take a very close look at the numbers and small print that the frac. sales people don't like to mention. You also might want to talk to your boss about "right sizing" his current aircraft and maintaining ownership. Of course, getting rid of the old aircraft might be difficult. At any rate, best of luck to you.

 

[NJAowner]

I have not had these "hidden extras" and have been with NJ for a long time. That said -- if I had more $$$ -- I would buy a plane and also work into the budget a card with NJ to handle unexpected maintenance and problems, sick crew, or just inefficient flights. If I had even more $$$$, I'd probably hire Gulfstream 200 to run my department! As far as duty time, I have had many days where I have left home at 6 a.m. and returned back at 10 p.m. and NJ has either swapped out the crew or the entire jet because of duty time.

If you want to save your job, find ways to make yourself/department indispensable -- so comparing only costs would be like comparing apples and newspapers. Can't be done.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If I had even more $$$$, I'd probably hire Gulfstream 200 to run my department!

I'm always avail for the right price!...LOL...did you ever get your pilots license???

 

[CA1900]

He also has 3 large (80-90) dogs that travel with him most of the time that the sales rep says will NOT be an issue. (True/False)

Absolutely true with Netjets. I carry dogs all the time, and they're always welcome. Just let the company know when you book your flight so they can be accounted for on the weight-and-balance. Note that dogs can be an issue for international travel, but that's a customs/immigration issue with various countries, not something specific to us.

The only restriction is that the dogs will be required to be secured for takeoff and landing in a proper location (varies by aircraft). Many owners bring their own dog harnesses for this purpose, though most planes are equipped with at least one. (For three dogs, he'll most certainly need to bring his own to be sure.)

 

[waka]

Just tell the owner that the scheduling departments at fracs try to squeeze every last bit of blood out of their pilots each and every day and that most are always tired from being used and abused.

 

[guido411]

Just tell the owner that the scheduling departments at fracs try to squeeze every last bit of blood out of their pilots each and every day and that most are always tired from being used and abused.

Which is why the fractionals have such a horrible safety record? Not sure what you're getting at but if you're implying that fractional pilots are unsafe then you will lose that argument.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Just tell the owner that the scheduling departments at fracs try to squeeze every last bit of blood out of their pilots each and every day and that most are always tired from being used and abused.

I know plenty of Pt91 operators who squeeze harder.

The entire situation in Pt91 depends solely on the owner and their commitment to Safety and STAFFING.

 

[gern_blanston]

From my limited experience:

When it comes down to it, you can either afford to own an airplane or you cant.

The owners of our airplane looked at and did demos on fractionals and came out perplexed as to why anyone would ever buy into one..fuel surcharges, ratty beat up planes, substitute planes, unknown crews etc...the answer is USUALLY that they cant afford their own plane (a 100% luxury item, no matter what crap NBAA spews) The old line of not having to worry about the headaches of running your own department is solved by hiring good people who work directly for you - to those who can afford it....

Precisely.