Pinnacle pilots can do better

[JoeMerchant]

So is ALPA "taking it back"..? The only thing ALPA delivers is slogans...

 

[sinkrate]

All night highspeeds with unlimited legs, 2.7 hours per day for vacation pay instead of 3.75 hrs, being dropped back onto reserve after flying, 14 hour airport reserve... still 10 day off minimum.... who the crap wrote that piece of junk??

All wrong.
-CDO's cannot be front loaded or back loaded any more
-The on duty break for CDO's was increased from five to six hours
-Pay for a week of vacation actually increased
-Airport reserve was reduced to 9 hours
-No pilot can be taken below the contractual min days off any more. That was the single most common complaint of junior pilots

I have not seen one single factually correct piece of information in this thread. All I see is a bunch of angry at management pilots rationalizing a 'no' vote.

 

[Tarzan]

All wrong.
-CDO's cannot be front loaded or back loaded any more
-The on duty break for CDO's was increased from five to six hours
-Pay for a week of vacation actually increased
-Airport reserve was reduced to 9 hours
-No pilot can be taken below the contractual min days off any more. That was the single most common complaint of junior pilots

I have not seen one single factually correct piece of information in this thread. All I see is a bunch of angry at management pilots rationalizing a 'no' vote.

Okay, post some pay rates and duty rigs then.

 

[dondk]

All wrong.
-CDO's cannot be front loaded or back loaded any more
-The on duty break for CDO's was increased from five to six hours
-Pay for a week of vacation actually increased
-Airport reserve was reduced to 9 hours
-No pilot can be taken below the contractual min days off any more. That was the single most common complaint of junior pilots

I have not seen one single factually correct piece of information in this thread. All I see is a bunch of angry at management pilots rationalizing a 'no' vote.

Not 100% correct, if you really want to split hairs. A pilot can be DHD, operate to domicile THEN CDO and it is compliant. It can be front loaded, back loaded would have to be more creative. The language says "operate", a dhd is not operating.

In certain circumstances, a RSV can be taking below min day, so that is not 100 accurate either. Certain extensions cannot be denied anymore, if out of domicile, you are more open to extension and you have no refusal option.

Junior assignments, whoppee you can decline them, but now everyone has to take at least 6 per year. Plus any JA over 48 hours is fair game. You saved the junior pilots but threw the other 85% under the bus.

Vacations went up from 18.75 to 18.9. Wow, .15 or about 9 MINUTES more pay PER WEEK. The super senior get a whopping 36 more minutes of pay for 4 weeks of vacation. The 9 minutes more pay is worth the vacation slides?

all in all, I would agree there are some improvements, are there enough to warrant the 5 years it took? That is for the 1200+ pilots to decide.

 

[sinkrate]

Not 100% correct, if you really want to split hairs. A pilot can be DHD, operate to domicile THEN CDO and it is compliant. It can be front loaded, back loaded would have to be more creative. The language says "operate", a dhd is not operating.

The definitions section is specific. The limit is two legs prior to the on duty break and two legs after the on duty break - no matter where in the AC you sit.

In certain circumstances, a RSV can be taking below min day, so that is not 100 accurate either.

Not correct. No pilot can be extended into a day off.

Certain extensions cannot be denied anymore, if out of domicile, you are more open to extension and you have no refusal option.

You still get home the same day

Junior assignments, whoppee you can decline them, but now everyone has to take at least 6 per year. Plus any JA over 48 hours is fair game.

???? No one can be junior assigned more than 48 hours prior to the report time of the trip. Plus they can not junior assign into a single duty day with days off either side. Do the math. They can only tag you for an assignment immediately following a trip.

You saved the junior pilots but threw the other 85% under the bus.

Vacations went up from 18.75 to 18.9. Wow, .15 or about 9 MINUTES more pay PER WEEK. The super senior get a whopping 36 more minutes of pay for 4 weeks of vacation. The 9 minutes more pay is worth the vacation slides?

all in all, I would agree there are some improvements, are there enough to warrant the 5 years it took? That is for the 1200+ pilots to decide.

It has been four years and 3 months.

 

[dondk]

The definitions section is specific. The limit is two legs prior to the on duty break and two legs after the on duty break - no matter where in the AC you sit.

Vote YES and see what DW says. Dollars to donuts this will be a grievance, his position has always been DHD is "not flying"

Not correct. No pilot can be extended into a day off.

A reserve pilot whose assignment ends on a previously scheduled day off for reasons beyond the Company's control will be entitled to extension premium credits earned on such day, plus a five (5) hour pay credit for the first day below minimum days off.

if they cannot be extended, why have the language? As I stated in could happen. The operative word is "could". Don't make the BOLD statement it cannot happen. It can, and more than likely it will be an extension, it should NOT be anything else.

You still get home the same day

true, very true. as long as it is before midnight. Define home, is that your home or the domicile? With more than 50% of the pilots being commuters, the extension language does not help them if tagged out of domicile and held out of domicile. That is the issue. Do through flying to another hub/focus city and you are fair game for an extension that cannot be refused.

???? No one can be junior assigned more than 48 hours prior to the report time of the trip. Plus they can not junior assign into a single duty day with days off either side. Do the math. They can only tag you for an assignment immediately following a trip.

I will concede to that, (reading earlier language) The current book does not compel a pilot to a JA, the new language compels you. While this does protect the junior pilot with 11 days off or less, it hurts anyone senior that is not on a 30/7 bubble or near a vacation. The only plus is it appears no one will ever be JA's into a CDO

It has been four years and 3 months.

Actually, Wake and company started section 6 six months early as allowed. We started negotiations in December 2004. Thus, it is 4 years and almost 10 months, slightly closer to 5 years, but what is a couple of months anyway

The original team, Wake, Ball, Blizzard and one other I think. Then Pimpkin, and Bruckno when Ball and Wake stepped aside on or about May 2005. The next team started in late '06 and the current team in early '07.

Since most of these issues are Section 25, are you defending Section 25 as the best of the TA? I agree, there are some improvements...
Section 25 was TA'd on March '06, more than 3 years ago and this is the best it can be??

Then simply Vote YES for the TA.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

All wrong.
-CDO's cannot be front loaded or back loaded any more
-The on duty break for CDO's was increased from five to six hours
-Pay for a week of vacation actually increased
-Airport reserve was reduced to 9 hours
-No pilot can be taken below the contractual min days off any more. That was the single most common complaint of junior pilots

I have not seen one single factually correct piece of information in this thread. All I see is a bunch of angry at management pilots rationalizing a 'no' vote.

Hello, Kool-aid man!

The "hours of service" section states that the on duty break on CDO's is "scheduled only." And I quote:

c. A CDO shall contain a scheduled break of no less than six (6)
hours. (m)
d. Except for a CDO reserve pilot, a CDO for which the pilot has
received less than 48 hours notice will contain a break of no
less than six (6) hours.

Good luck with their interpretation of that.



I was a bit off in regards to the airport reserve.... now airport reserve+home reserve cannot exceed 14 hours instead of 12. Enjoy! Not to mention having to go back on reserve after flying.

You can still be taken below your min days off...

Are you really trying to justify the "4 years and 3 months" it took to get this turd?

 

[FutureHeavyAC]

Pay rates? Bonus info? Not much from my pinnacle buds on this one so Im wondering why they are so quiet......

 

[dondk]

The initial 50 seat rate is the average of:

Air Wisconsin
American Eagle
ASA
Comair
Express Jet
Mesa
Mesaba
PSA
Republic
Skywest
TSA

The initial 76 seat rates are the average of:

ASA
Comair
Compass
Mesaba
Republic
Skywest

44-59 seat turbojet CA:

57.38
59.68
61.96
64.01
65.94
67.93
69.98
72.10
74.33
76.62
78.83
81.37
83.76
86.24
88.25
89.98
91.68
93.29

FO:
23.11
32.15
35.06
36.83
37.84
38.69
39.47
40.05


60-76 turbojet CA:
61.27
63.10
65.73
67.70
69.39
71.52
73.72
75.91
78.57
81.31
83.78
86.48
89.02
91.77
94.52
97.07
99.55
102.09

FO:
25.73
34.48
36.81
38.33
39.30
40.26
41.25
42.03
42.06
42.08
42.08
42.08
42.08
42.08
43.07
44.03
44.93
45.96

Regardless, it is industry average nothing else. No COLA increases, just DOS increases between 1-3% depending on the "average"

Bonus split into 2 payments, 5 million per payment.

Bottom line, current book with 3% COLA for the last 5 years with 2-4 bucks thrown on top will give you the rates if signed

 

[Ridgeback]

You fought this hard for "average pay rates" and way below average work rules????

Let me be the first to say it

Pinnacle SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get some self respect and a bit of self worth and vote this POS down....