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Word on the street about flex decertification effort...

EnFuego

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"I have had reassurances from all the carriers..." So he has been talking to United, Delta, American, UPS, Alaska, JetBlue and Spirit. And yes, if that is the case, then he is telling you this place is not a career. Rick, maybe you should worry about cancelling this last class because no one showed instead of interfering in this vote.
 

MOMOMOJO

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What are his reassurances? Anyone want to quote more of his tripe?
He is saying "the Union" is behind these threats and intimidations and don't believe a word of it.

Where is this IBT 1108 union communication I missed full of threats and intimidation? Rick loves to embellish. One is many, all day is a few minutes, everyone is two. You know I'm right!

What I do recall seeing is the half dozen or so letters of support from unions representing 100,000 plus pilots. That is what says it all right there.

The fact is no one can say exactly what will happen if this place decertifies but what everyone is saying is they know aviation is a very small community sometimes and if 100,000 pilots are being told by their unions to stand in solidarity with us or it threatens the solidity of their contracts, then yes you better pay attention and guage how that may or may not impinge your future marketability.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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So RH is claiming he has friends at all of these carriers and that they are willing to turn their backs on their own rank and file pilots in favor of him and his position to decertify a Union? I have to admit I never met RH, but he really seams like a desperate person that is trying to just hold onto his job. I feel sorry for him.
 

cougar12

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I have met him and I was not impressed. I believe he is clueless as to who he is carrying water for. He will eventually get burned a second time and we will see how many of those friends will be there to help him. I bet none when they see his anti union rhetoric!
 

MagnumPI

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I have met him and I was not impressed. I believe he is clueless as to who he is carrying water for. He will eventually get burned a second time and we will see how many of those friends will be there to help him. I bet none when they see his anti union rhetoric!
Handschuch survived the last company loss to the union. If the union wins again, , I suspect he will be “leaving for a new job opportunity.” Maybe he can get a job from one of his “buddies” at the airlines. Or maybe he will be flying duck $h17 to China since he was so good at shoving it here.
 

V1 Rotate

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I've been gone from Flex for a year now at an ALPA carrier. I receive the ALPA daily news e-mail every day and yesterday's e-mail contained a headline about the decert effort at Flex. Not only has ALPA, and all the other major unions sent letters of support, ALPA has seen fit to include the news in their daily e-mailer. On top of that, you'd have have to be delusional to think that a union member on the new-hire committee or interview board won't know the history of the decert effort, regardless of how it turns out. The HR folk may not be aware, but the union person will be. I've been told that it's possible that a Felxjetter may not even get an interview when their resume or application is reviewed by the interview board. All it takes is for one member, presumably the union member, of the board to say "no" to either an interview invite or a job offer. The point of this post is to convey the message that actions have consequences. It's just the way it is. Agree with it or not. Here's the article linked to in the ALPA e-mailer. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-04-26/us-pilot-groups-urge-flexjet-pilots-keep-union
 

Casa212

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He is saying "the Union" is behind these threats and intimidations and don't believe a word of it.

Where is this IBT 1108 union communication I missed full of threats and intimidation? Rick loves to embellish. One is many, all day is a few minutes, everyone is two. You know I'm right!

What I do recall seeing is the half dozen or so letters of support from unions representing 100,000 plus pilots. That is what says it all right there.

The fact is no one can say exactly what will happen if this place decertifies but what everyone is saying is they know aviation is a very small community sometimes and if 100,000 pilots are being told by their unions to stand in solidarity with us or it threatens the solidity of their contracts, then yes you better pay attention and guage how that may or may not impinge your future marketability.
Here is what the Union is saying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEkj8dzYlqI&feature=youtu.be
 

EnFuego

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I've been gone from Flex for a year now at an ALPA carrier. I receive the ALPA daily news e-mail every day and yesterday's e-mail contained a headline about the decert effort at Flex. Not only has ALPA, and all the other major unions sent letters of support, ALPA has seen fit to include the news in their daily e-mailer. On top of that, you'd have have to be delusional to think that a union member on the new-hire committee or interview board won't know the history of the decert effort, regardless of how it turns out. The HR folk may not be aware, but the union person will be. I've been told that it's possible that a Felxjetter may not even get an interview when their resume or application is reviewed by the interview board. All it takes is for one member, presumably the union member, of the board to say "no" to either an interview invite or a job offer. The point of this post is to convey the message that actions have consequences. It's just the way it is. Agree with it or not. Here's the article linked to in the ALPA e-mailer. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-04-26/us-pilot-groups-urge-flexjet-pilots-keep-union
This needs to be read by every voter. El raton, now that you realize what is at stake, you should be sharing this with everyone on the Legacy fleet.
 

el raton

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This needs to be read by every voter. El raton, now that you realize what is at stake, you should be sharing this with everyone on the Legacy fleet.
Why would I lift a finger to help this pos union. It hasn’t done a damn thing for us. The only thing it’s done is make our lives miserable.

This is an example of how bad the 1108 has been for Flex- A moron named Phil is leading a successful decertification drive at Flexjet. If the 1108 has something to offer they wouldn’t be in the position they’re in now. Why do we have to be stuck with the worst union in the industry?

After chatting with friends who work for the airlines, it’s not the threat I thought it would be. The market drives the airlines decision to hire pilots from Flexjet.

I’m not in the Legacy, why would I share anything with them?
 
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EnFuego

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Why would I lift a finger to help this pos union. It hasn’t done a damn thing for us. The only thing it’s done is make our lives miserable.

This is an example of how bad the 1108 has been for Flex- A moron named Phil is leading a successful decertification drive at Flexjet. If the 1108 has something to offer they wouldn’t be in the position they’re in now. Why do we have to be stuck with the worst union in the industry?

After chatting with friends who work for the airlines, it’s not the threat I thought it would be. The market drives the airlines decision to hire pilots from Flexjet.

I’m not in the Legacy, why would I share anything with them?
Not sure which airline you are talking to, but Southwest and AA are definitely watching this and it will matter to them.
 

el raton

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Not sure which airline you are talking to, but Southwest and AA are definitely watching this and it will matter to them.
The market will tell. Maybe alpa or swapa should spend a day in our shoes to understand why the decert, instead of strapping us down with this nightmare.
 
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V1 Rotate

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Why would I lift a finger to help this pos union. It hasn’t done a damn thing for us. The only thing it’s done is make our lives miserable.

This is an example of how bad the 1108 has been for Flex- A moron named Phil is leading a successful decertification drive at Flexjet. If the 1108 has something to offer they wouldn’t be in the position they’re in now. Why do we have to be stuck with the worst union in the industry?

After chatting with friends who work for the airlines, it’s not the threat I thought it would be. The market drives the airlines decision to hire pilots from Flexjet.

I’m not in the Legacy, why would I share anything with them?
Because if maybe you and the other 49% lifted a finger in support you'd have Ricci on the ropes and negotiating from a position of strength instead of hoping that Handschuch and company will ride in on a white horse and save your career. Get over the Teamsters name and stand up for your career. After all, it's just about the name, right?
 

el raton

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Because if maybe you and the other 49% lifted a finger in support you'd have Ricci on the ropes and negotiating from a position of strength instead of hoping that Handschuch and company will ride in on a white horse and save your career. Get over the Teamsters name and stand up for your career. After all, it's just about the name, right?
Their name isn’t the reason the Teamsters are losing support. They failed to produce anything positive. Don’t blame the pilots, blame the 1108 for failing to rally the troops. It’s their job to lead and they failed, so far.

I’ll just ask a simple question, have working conditions improved for the flex pilots since the mcba? Are we better off since the vote? Most of us would say no, we’re not.
 

DirtyBeech

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The market will tell. Maybe alpa or swapa should spend a day in our shoes to understand why the decert, instead of strapping us down with this nightmare.
And maybe you should view it from their’s. You’re about to take an unprecedented step, a mistake at that with Ken Ricci at the helm, and the airline unions who have fought tooth and nail for years to get the QOL, rules and compensation they now enjoy are watching. Airline management sure as heck didn’t give it to them. Why would they look kindly on someone letting the camel’s nose under the tent?

And who are your other union options? In house? Ok. Figure up the total dues collected by 571 pilots and then tell me how many grievances it would require to bankrupt the union. Now you’re toothless. Who else will represent you? It was investigated and the answer was no one in case you never bothered to check.

Remember the bonus ol’ Ken couldn’t bring himself to pay? Loss of sick time? 401k percentage? Do you like the current operation tempos? See and avoid BS? Two guys doing the same job and getting paid wildly different rates? Have you bothered to read Ken’s book where he plainly states that he intends to keep 80% of his employees underpaid? Is that how you want to live? Sucking up to Ricci and company so that they’ll toss you crumbs? Have you done anything at all other than b**ch from the sidelines in the whole process?

And you’re wrong. The airline unions are watching this closely. I received the ALPA fast read as well. Your acquaintances may think the market will drive the hiring of Flex pilots. There’s only 571 of you. Maybe 2-300 that can or would leave. It’s no skin off their backs to let you rot in Ricci’s world because 200 pilots is a rounding error in their hiring needs.

I too have been gone for nearly a year, and just two days ago received a text from an AK pilot that I haven’t talked to in a few years, and who didn’t know I was gone from Flex. It was not a love note extolling the virtues of Ken Ricc and decert. The unions are already watching, and the rank and file are catching on.

So do what you want, but be ready to own what you do.
 
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Dirty Squirrel

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I have a question. Why didn’t we here from the airline unions when the first drive was going on? Maybe, because they (ALPA, SWAPA, etc.) weren’t solicited with form letters three years ago like they were several days ago.
 

V1 Rotate

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Their name isn’t the reason the Teamsters are losing support. They failed to produce anything positive. Don’t blame the pilots, blame the 1108 for failing to rally the troops. It’s their job to lead and they failed, so far.

I’ll just ask a simple question, have working conditions improved for the flex pilots since the mcba? Are we better off since the vote? Most of us would say no, we’re not.
Sure it is. I can't begin to tell you how many times guys told me they couldn't get on board because of the name "Teamsters." "If only ALPA would come on board..." So yes, it's the name. I got over it and you should, too. When 49% of the pilots are working against the Union, how do you expect anything positive to be produced? Even still, did you even bother to read all their proposals for a new contract? They were pretty good and you'd probably be working under them if the majority of Flexjet pilots didn't carry water for the company and run out the nine month clock. Between the two of us, I'm the only one that's seen what solidarity and no solidarity can get you during a JCBA procress. Trust me, 90%+ support wins every time versus 51%. You might want to consider it.
 

DirtyBeech

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I’d also ask who fought the mcba until arbitration was required? You understand that the company, the one you’re counting on for their gracious generosity, didn’t want to give you what you got right?

Why didn’t the airline unions get involved with Flex unionization? Aviation companies unionize. They don’t decert. What’s happening now is unprecedented.
 
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GlorifiedCabbie

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The market will tell. Maybe alpa or swapa should spend a day in our shoes to understand why the decert, instead of strapping us down with this nightmare.
El, you crack me up. Did you ever spend a day under Ricci without the threat of the Union coming to your rescue? BOHICA.
 

V1 Rotate

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If nothing else will you convince you of what not having a contract does for you, look no further than the FA's that were just let go. And I don't want to hear about their one year severance. Given the choice, I'm sure they'd rather have a job than a year's worth of pay in the bank and on the job hunt again after one or two decades. Meanwhile, junior "cabin servers" are globetrotting around in the G's thinking they've hit the jackpot. Remember Ricci's response to out of seniority furloughs? You just witnessed it with the FA's. And when the Lear fleet goes bye bye and there are no openings in other fleets, they'll probably receive the same fate, regardless of what Handschuch tells you guys. He's not the one making the calls, Ricci is. Remember, in Ricci's world Red Label pilots are protected from furlough, thus, Lear pilots will not be able to displace any of them and if there are no openings in the Phenoms or Challenger 300's, then good luck on your job search, especially with the information that I provided in my earlier post. Not only was Ricci successful in persuading Arbitrator Fishgold to put that furlough protection into the MCBA, that's his stance and MCBA or not, that'll be how he conducts himself. Would you have stood by and allowed Fred Reid and Dave Gross to act this way? Or even Deanna White? Of course not. Grow a backbone and start standing up for yourselves.
 
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