Women Don't Want to Fly as Much as Men!

atpcliff

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Hi!

Is it a good thing? No.
Is it a bad thing? No.

It just is.

The typical female is not as interested in flying as a typical male.

Last semester I held a class for a week for kids Grades 7&8. I was teaching an introduction to flying. It was open to anyone. The only students I talked to about it were a group of girls and highly encouraged them to take the class. Only 6 students signed up. They were all boys. The sewing class was overflowing, with a vast majority of girls signed up.

Recently, one of the "Flying" magazine columnists talked about this. He had two daughters, and he did everything he could to interest them to fly. No dice.

I know a number of women who are great pilots. I'll bet you do too. I'm glad that women and men, and people of various races, etc., now have a decent chance to be a professional pilot.

What I personally don't like is when someone, in this situation typically a female, has a fit about the fact that there aren't enough women in flying and something should be done.

No, nothing should be done, especially for women. EVERYONE should be introduced to flying, and given the opportunity to discover it for themselves. If not many women want to fly, OK.

I think that all jobs in the military, including direct combat positions, including Marine infantry, should be open to anyone that can PASS THE TEST! If a female can do it, then she can do it. If none, or very few women can pass the test, that's fine. If only 1 out of 1000 infantry troops is female, there is nothing wrong with that.

No one should be arbitrarily excluded, and no one should be especially included. If you meet the standard of whatever the job requires, you get the job. Period.

Cliff
GB,WI
 

Lindy

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Look at the grades involved....

WOW. The title of your post caught my attention!!

There also have been studies that the 7th/8th grade Math & Science scores begin to drop for females. The rationale has been that "boys" become an interest and the psychology associated with that......(some) young women/girls do not want to appear to be smarter than their male counterparts.

Please try not to pigeon-hole all young women as the gals in Wisconsin.......I have spoken at various career days and have noticed that there is usually a 70%/30% split in the groups (predominately male).

And, I believe sewing is a valuable skill....on an overnight and that darn button needs to be sewn back onto your coat!! (Of course that sewing kit wasn't in your flight bag, you had to go to the front desk and beg for one....the one in your flight bag was confiscated through security back in October!!)

Finally, I didn't know what I wanted to do for a career when I was in the 8th grade.....the small-town high school wouldn't let me enroll in auto mechanics in the 9th grade and told my mother that typing was a better class for me take. Yeah, I can type really, really fast, but I could have used the information about internal combustion engines at a later date. :cool:
 
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atpcliff

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Hi!

It's great that you like flying. I'm different, and actually probably would prefer to fly with a female, all other things being equal.

It's interesting about the 70/30 split at career day. I assumed you were there for flying, and that was the interest difference for a flying type career. I would assume it would be more than 70/30, typically. I would like to hear other's experience in this area.

The reason I posted this was on another board there was a HUGE thread with all these postings about how it was BAD that there were few women pilots. Of course there will be less female pilots if they weren't interested. I think sewing is great if that's what you're into. I WAS disappointed that not at least some girls signed up for my class.

On similiar vein, I have noticed that locally, there are VERY FEW high school students interested in flying (neither male nor female) and I was trying to increase their exposure. I have read that nationwide there have been less student starts in general.

I would like to hear all of your opinions-anyone have them on women in combat? I think women should be in the draft, also.

Cliff
GB,WI
 

English

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atpcliff,


"No, nothing should be done, especially for women. EVERYONE should be introduced to flying, and given the opportunity to discover it for themselves. If not many women want to fly, OK. "

That is the problem - equal opportunities are not always given to girls as are given to boys when it comes to subjects like flying, auto mechanics, woodshop...the same opportunities are not given to boys when the subjects are sewing, cooking, home economics...there are some stereotypes still held by older generations that girls should do x, and boys should do y. Sure, there are many fathers these days that do a good job of introducing girls to traditionally male-dominated activities, but in previous generations, it was not the case. Just a sign of the way we were all raised.
 

skydiverdriver

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Yes, there are some steriotypes still around, but not as much as there used to be. A woman who wants to can do anything she wants these days. She may run into a few men (and even a few women) who may not think it's right, but there are women in just about every profession.

I have seen the women don't want to fly syndrome as well. One lady who I instructed to get her ATP, had a son and a daughter. Her son wanted to be a pilot, and her daughter had no interest. I agree that this is why there are fewer women pilots. I had one woman pilot complain about this, and she said there are more male flight attendants than women pilots. I think that is a completely different thing.

As for women in combat, I think this is a bad idea. For one thing, they can't pass the test, as the standards had to be lowered for women to be able to get through it. Women are just not as strong as men, physically. Of course, some women are stronger than some men, but those men shouldn't be combat soldiers either. There has allready been deaths in basic training due to lowered standards, and it's just a matter of time before this happens in combat. Also, women in the trenches adds just another difficult situation for men, who tend to try to protect women. I heard the reason we didn't allow women to fight in WWII was because so much more could be done to a woman in a POW camp. Some women were actually raped in the Gulf War, but not many people heard about it.

Women are better than men at a great many things, I just don't think that carrying a heavy pack and defending a group with large rifles is one of them. Just my opinion.
 

olderpilot

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women in aviation

It is still a good "ole" boys network...Flying has been my life and I have worked hard to achieve my goals....some very difficult at times. Women and men are different..they tackle each item with different views and procedures but can ultimately achieve their goals. Women need encouragement to proved that they can do it. Fortunately, women are starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel for opportunities. I remember back when women were not flying in the airlines, or corporate... 1970's....once the barriers are broken watch the women go.:)
 

AWACoff

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I spoke to an AP calculus class about flying careers just a month ago. There were only 2 students from outside the class that signed up to hear the 45 minute presentation. Both were female. Overall I noted a lack of interest in the career. Of course being a pilot isn't the glorified job the public believes it to be. God forbid we actually have to work hard at times (or not at all if you're furloughed). 2 kids interested in aviation out of a school of 1000 is kind of sad. The school is only 23 miles from OSH for Pete's sake.
 

Lindy

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Barriers

Do you think part of the problem is the cost? Personally, I had to attend a 4 year school so that I could borrow student loan money to offset expenses.

What about 9-11? Do you think that has affected many of the potential aviators?

I'm disappointed to see a decline.....that means there are flight instructors not instructing due to a lower student demand.
 

checkessential

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Here we go again second guessing millions of years of evolution. Feminists and liberals want to blame it all on men. Men are just more predisopsed for occupations like flying, and subjects like physics and math. Who wrote that post about women taking an interest in boys, and not wanting them to feel bad about not performing well in those sujects? Nonsense! How illogical and contrived.
Just deal with every person on an individual basis, and make your assesment. Until then, no bickering on how women and minorites aren't given equal chances. They aren't. And right now, it has never been more in their favor, and not mine.
Good day.
 

TWA Dude

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Hey checkessential, better sign off 'cause you're missing Rush Limbaugh! :D
 

Lindy

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I made that post...

OK, now you are going to make me work.....That was a paraphrase about research studies pertaining to that specific grade level. I need to find the original study!!

I, by no way, made any statements or implied that all the woes of women are the fault of men.

So far, this discussion has been educated and the reesponses have been informative. Why try to start an argument about feminism and equal chances? No one mentioned those issues; we were just discussing the turn-out during career days.

Additoinally, I did make a post about what happened to me. It is factual and it clearly depicted how the small-town believed (I hope that it has changed and it itsn't believes....) co-eds should be assigned classes.

Luckily, my family wasn't smalll-mined and let me do what I want.

And, if you want to hear what I believe is the bane of my existence -- it is the fact that I am furloughed and the leprosy associated with my employment status.
 

FlyToVegas

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It's still with us...

My true story is that I was issued a failure on a ME VFR checkride and the examiner stated "I don't feel comfortable flying with a female." When I presented that statement to the MCO FSDO, the kind FAA inspector stated "I don't blame him." I have appealed to the ATL regional office, but they won't answer me.

Again, true story.
 

aggiepilot87

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"My true story is that I was issued a failure on a ME VFR checkride and the examiner stated "I don't feel comfortable flying with a female." When I presented that statement to the MCO FSDO, the kind FAA inspector stated "I don't blame him." I have appealed to the ATL regional office, but they won't answer me. "

There's got to be more to the story... I don't buy it.

If you want to fly, go join the military. They're granting waivers to get women flying. Take LtCol Martha McSally (AOPA mag this month) for example. She's too short, but they gave her a waiver. I couldn't pass the vision test, personally. No waivers for angry white men apparently.
 

publisher

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Obviously this is going over better here than in Nashville next week at the Women in Aviation annual meeting.

In preparation for an interview that I did with Peggy Chabrian on Avcareer.TV I looked at some numbers. It appeared to me that about the same number of women start every year but that the proportion that are serious and doing it for a career are a much higher percentage. There has also been a marked increase in the other aviation industry jobs
 

Bluto

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Aggie Pilot,
I personally know of a number of white males who have been issued waivers for a number of disqualifying factors, including vision. Perhaps it had more to do with you being angry, and less with you being a "white man".
 

aggiepilot87

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No telling, Bluto. Sure wish I could have figured out what it took to get one of those mysterious waivers though. When I was looking, 15 years ago, the only ones I knew of getting waivers were the ones who'd been trained and had the vision go South afterwards.

Had a roommate in college who was three years into an academic scholarship with the USMC. His vision dropped below 20/20 just before his senior year. No flying for him, either. But, he was also an angry white male.
 

surfnole

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****I think that all jobs in the military, including direct combat positions, including Marine infantry, should be open to anyone that can PASS THE TEST***

You also mentioned that there should be a draft for women.

I think this is a horrible idea. What kind of country drafts their young women and then sends them out to war?

The military is not a social program.

From a practical perspective, as a nation, do you really want to send off young females of child bearing age to die? Even egg bearing female lobsters are protected by our federal goverment.

From a personal perspective, would you want you daughter drafted to go charge an Afghan foxhole to be possibly raped and brutalized?

Feminists pay lip service to the ideal of equality in the military. If they wanted true equality, they would lobby for all women to sign up for selective service at the age of 18. They would lobby for all women to be included in the draft. And, there would be no instant out based on pregnancy...or the woman combatant would have to agree to use enforced birth control. If that happened, we would really see just how popular equality in the military is.

No matter what NOW wants to tell you, men and women are wired differently. I am not saying that there aren't great woman pilots, I am saying that as a populution, women aren't as interested as men.

Whats really funny are these studies claiming that girls are discriminated against in school, when in most measurements, they outperform boys. What is the most destructive element of our society? Teenage males. Just ask any auto insurance company. According to the measurement of social disfunction, boys are the ones requiring the most help.

Enough of my rant.
 

Ravengirl

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enough
here we go...

Yes, aviation tends to be labelled as the "good old boys club", but in my experience, 95% of the men I've met are nice, helpful, respectful. The other 5%...well, they are what they are. But not all women in aviation are wonderful either...there are nice people and not-so-nice people, I suppose.

On another note, in the aviation and air traffic control classes at my school, it's about a 60-40 split between males and females. But I admit, more women are in the air traffic control program than the flight program. I'm one of the few ATC students who gives a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** about flying the planes too.

Fewer women are interested in aviation, but then, fewer men are interested in being interior decorators. It's all relative.

Ravengirl
 

TurboS7

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Women are diffrent than men. Women get more into the big picture of things and the details at the same time. Men can't do that, either we are looking at the big picture or we are looking at the details. On the other hand women don't want to be bothered with all the hassle of all of the above, it creates pressure and most women like to "chill out." They do need approval and they want to produce, give them the approval and they will climb a mountain for you. As for interest all my girls(five of them) want to fly but the economic's won't allow it. My sons aren't interested but if they were I would encourage him. The girls seem to like to fly for fun, my wife loves to just cruise in the C-150 and just check stuff out. To go fly and practice, that's boring. In the end women make wonderful aviators and I love having them on the flight deck, they are wonderful crewmembers. I have flown as FO for women and have had them as FO's, either way it was a pleasure and a priveledge.
 
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