whos responsibility.... ?

walkthasky

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Seems like a tricky question:

Whos responsibility is it to maintain terrain clearance when in imc: pilot or controller??

The AIM says Pilot will when meteorlogical conditions permit, the pilot will see and avoid traffic, and terrain, no matter what type of flight plan. Controller will alert pilots when conditions are compromised.

From what i can understand from the aim, is that if you are vmc and can "see", than "avoid" it. If imc, then the controller is responsible to let you know, but as pilots we are responsible for knowing charts, weather, and terrain before we even depart.

Am i going in circles ??
 

A Squared

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When a pilot fails to maintain terrain clearence, who dies? The pilot or the controller? Whose responsibility do you think it is?
 

walkthasky

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ahh sarcasm...
 

A Squared

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No, that wasn't sarcastic, it was supposed to be thought provoking.

regards
 

walkthasky

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well if i died id blame the controller..gotta blame someone
 

avbug

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The pilot has full responsibility for terrainand obstacle separation until guidance is provided in the form of radar vectors.

However, as A Squared corectly pointed out, at the end of the day, the pilot burns on the mountainside outside Cali, while the controller goes home to a beer and the wife and kids.

Where do you let the responsibility lie?
 

Wiggums

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Controller. I've been searching order 7110.65 to find it but I haven't so far. I know I'll get qute a bit of flack from experts that will say it's my a$$ to lose. However, who here pulls out a chart in IMC every single time the controller says, "Flight XXX, descend and maintain five thousand".
 

avbug

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Wiggums,

Once the controller has assumed responsibility, it's the controllers responsibility. That still doesn't change the fate of the pilot, however. The previously mentioned incident at Cali, though an imperect example, stands out.

I know I've had folks try to put me into terrain, as well as saving myself from doing the same. A little backup and awareness keeps everyone honest.

Prior to the controller assuming responsibility by providing vectors, the pilot has responsibility.
 

walkthasky

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thanks for the clarification...
:D
 

Timebuilder

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When I'm going to a new (to me) destination, I like to check the MEA's and the MSA for the area in question, just to get an idea of what is around. More often than not, the controller will keep me high longer than I would expect, rather than taking me too low too soon.

Maybe he sees the type on the flight plan, and knows that I can use those spoilers for a steep descent....

At any rate, I try and keep an awareness than could save my life.
 

Wiggums

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Avbug: Please explain what you mean by, "I know I've had folks try to put me into terrain." Do you mean controllers? If so under what situations?
 

8sm

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My CFI-II always told me " know where you are at all times "

During Instrument training, he would intentionally turn me into harms way, with a large pile of GOD's good earth, just to see if I was looking at my chart to verify any heading and altitude changes. When he did not hear me question an altitude assignment ( given by himself ) he would have me remove the hood. That lesson was worth its weight in gold.

Looking at what could have been, makes you think about who you're going to trust. Verify Verify Verify leave nothing to trust.

Do not let someones mistake be your last.

Regards..........8sm
 
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