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What is so wrong about "with you"

GravityHater

Well-known member
withyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwithyouwi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lowslow

Active member
I'm going to say it when I have even the slightest hint that one of you guys are on, and "with me" also!
 

Dubya

Part time genius
You forgot.."with your wife at 6000"

Which flight school?
My money is on SIU. Although it was probably "with y'all".

W



midlifeflyer said:
"Hello."
"How dee do?"
"I have a great mortgage rate for you!"
"In the air"
"Sitting down"
"In an airplane"
"Hi there big boy"
"Grow your penis today"
"FYI"
"Laser Cartridge Refills

and that all time classic

"uhhhh"

which, of course, is what "with you" is really the equivalent of. Filler when you can't think of anything relevant to say. Nothing really "wrong" with it, but an unnecessary crutch. The only time I really got huffy about it was when I saw it on a flight school's handout of recommended communication technique.
 

pilotmiketx

Registerd User
BushwickBill said:
Im not saying its wrong or right. I have been scolded for saying "with you" by senior flight instructors and FAA checkairmen. Then when I finally got out of the habbit I started flying right seat in the 525. Then I was scolded for saying "level 320" and was specifically told to say "with you" again.

So I'm pretty confused at the moment about the whole thing. Keep in mind the guys flying the 525 seem to be very competent much more so than anyone else I have flown with. They also are very correct about saying stuff like "PD one zero thats ten thousand". We also say Center but not which one and say Norcal without saying approach. No controller seems to care very much.
That right there is pretty f***ed up. I don't blame you for being confused. While I know I am right, and many others here obviously agree with me, I'm pretty sure the Captain, Chief Pilot, or Check Airman trump the message board. When you're the captain, do it the right way. Until then, saying "with you" isn't going to crash the plane.
 

BushwickBill

Registered Abuser
pilotmiketx said:
That right there is pretty f***ed up. I don't blame you for being confused. While I know I am right, and many others here obviously agree with me, I'm pretty sure the Captain, Chief Pilot, or Check Airman trump the message board. When you're the captain, do it the right way. Until then, saying "with you" isn't going to crash the plane.
Reality always seems to trump the message board. :) I feel better about being confused though, thanks.
 

A Squared

Well-known member
BushwickBill said:
Then I was scolded for saying "level 320" and was specifically told to say "with you" again.

Did you ask them why they objected to you saying "level 320" when you are doing it *exactly* the way the AIM recommends you make your initial call?

AIM 5-3-1 b2

2. The following phraseology should be utilized by pilots for establishing contact with the designated facility:​
(a) When operating in a radar environment: On initial contact, the pilot should inform the controller of the aircraft's assigned altitude preceded by the words "level," or "climbing to," or "descending to," as appropriate; and the aircraft's present vacating altitude, if applicable.
EXAMPLE-
1. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEVEL (altitude or flight level).
2. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEAVING (exact altitude or flight level), CLIMBING TO OR DESCENDING TO (altitude of flight level).​
 

pilotmiketx

Registerd User
My CP doesn't like "Level" either. I think that's BS. AIM or not, seems to be a good idea to let ATC know you're not still climbing or descending in case there was a screw up with the altitude. Although it might be a little redundant since if you're not level you would be reporting your present altitude and then altitude climbing or descending to.
 

minitour

Well-known member
I typically leave off the "level" part.

If I'm climbing/descending, I'll let them know.

"Approach, good afternoon, cessna 1234X 8 thousand 4 hundred descending 4 thousand Charlie"

not 8 point 4 for 4...which looks like 8.444 in my mind...

But if I'm level at 5,000 I'll just say "Approach, Cessna 1234X 5,000"

Seems to be alright...might start with the "level" again...didn't reailze that was correct even if not in the "Flight level's". Good info...thanks!

-mini
 

gkrangers

college = debt
minitour said:
I typically leave off the "level" part.

If I'm climbing/descending, I'll let them know.

"Approach, good afternoon, cessna 1234X 8 thousand 4 hundred descending 4 thousand Charlie"

not 8 point 4 for 4...which looks like 8.444 in my mind...

But if I'm level at 5,000 I'll just say "Approach, Cessna 1234X 5,000"

Seems to be alright...might start with the "level" again...didn't reailze that was correct even if not in the "Flight level's". Good info...thanks!

-mini
Exactly what I do. Seems "ok". I've yet to be reamed by ATC for phraseology.

ALTHO, I think, sometime last week I had a brainfart and said standy after they told me to standby... :idiot:
 

minitour

Well-known member
gkrangers said:
Exactly what I do. Seems "ok". I've yet to be reamed by ATC for phraseology.

ALTHO, I think, sometime last week I had a brainfart and said standy after they told me to standby... :idiot:
eheh...can't say I haven't had a brainfart recently...said "ident" to "Cessna 123 Ident"....yeah...that was dumb. Oh well...it happens, right? :p

-mini
 

gkrangers

college = debt
minitour said:
eheh...can't say I haven't had a brainfart recently...said "ident" to "Cessna 123 Ident"....yeah...that was dumb. Oh well...it happens, right? :p

-mini
I've done that...its not as bad as standby...cuz they actually did tell us to do something....tho I guess its still dumb.

I should have my license revoked :( :0
 

minitour

Well-known member
gkrangers said:
I should have my license revoked :( :0
....nevermind...I won't say it.

I'll give you a clue though...it had something to do with UnAnswered, your line above and it was really funny :D

-mini
 

pilotmiketx

Registerd User
The other day I said "Center, 1234, request." Twice. And it wasn't even busy. Broke my own rule. Still shaking my head at that one. Must've been more tired than I thought.
 

moonlight

Flyin' to fund my fishin'
At my first shot as Official Gear Handle Supervisor, I checked in to LAS departure with the infamous "with you" phraseology. My astute captain quickly pointed out the error of my ways. Not 10 seconds after he was done. I heard a SWA pilot check in with the same phrase. All I could think of was to key up and say, "Excuse me, my captain said that we aren't checking in with anybody". Didn't do it though, too busy clapping my hands so the captain knew I wasn't touching anything.
 

profile

Shem Malmquist
The problem with the word "level" is that everywhere outside the U.S. the term is a short form of "flight level", so saying "level 8,000" is a very odd confusion of terms. Better to substitute "maintaining". Similarly, the term "with you" is not so much a problem with English speaking controllers, but can really muck up the works with those that have marginal command of the language (i.e., just what is listed in PANS-OPs and nothing else).
 

pilotmiketx

Registerd User
If you want to waste some time, go read the Frax boards. You'll feel like needing a shower when you're done.
 
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