Vote will be counted right now

rajflyboy

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At any rate:

that industry leading 8 n 6 schedule :laugh: will get a hole lot better now. Company will now have no requirement to get you home on your last day. Explain that to your Family. :laugh:
 

GE6108A

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Squawk,
Shouldn't you be gone by now? Collect your spoils and get out of this industry. You won't have the same success elsewhere.
 

rajflyboy

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Right where you are?

you mean calling your family on the last work day and telling them you will not be making it home?
 

rajflyboy

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So I wonder if union leadership will be axed immediately, picked off one by one or offered one of Kenn's signature VSP'S?

The only solace is knowing 318 people will sooner or later be getting everything they deserve.
unfortunately the union leadership was not strong enough to unify the pilot group (the merge of Flex/Options also made this much harder)
 

GooodLaaa

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Onesky....you will have no respect in the industry. I hope the ones that can, get out before word gets out that y’all are the first to decert a Union in aviation
 

realityman

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My sincerest condolences to all those who voted to keep the union.

I don't see anything terribly immediate on the horizon for a lot of pilots over your way simply because reducing the compensation package at a time when finding qualified pilots is tough wouldn't be a brilliant move. However, I don't think it'll be too terribly long before KR starts making things worse for everyone.

It'll be slowly. Maybe a change in schedule which adds a few workdays here and there over the year for no extra pay. More out of seniority upgrades. Various firings which will "coincidentally" be the strongest union supporters (or union leadership). Lots of little stuff that will add up to a much worse working environment. On the flip side, some of the biggest FOK's will be rewarded.

Worst part is, WHEN a lot more people realize oops, we do need a union! there isn't a union out there who will ever touch you again. Ever. Congrats to Ricci. You are now forever and permanently a non-union shop. Sorry, but unless you increase your seniority list to somewhere north of 1500 pilots, you won't have enough for an in-house union unless everyone wants to pay a very large sum of their paychecks as dues.

Good luck over there! The consequences of this are going to be worse than anticipated. As the first unionized pilot group to decert, EVER, the industry won't be kind to you, even if at least 220 of you don't deserve it. There's already talk of at least one major airline blackballing anyone from Flex/FLOPS from being hired there. I don't know if it's true, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. The example needs to be set that decertifying is not something the industry pilots want to take hold.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only relaying the background chatter. But yes, I do think the yes voters just took a big shotgun to your own feet. Again, good luck.
 

squawk

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My sincerest condolences to all those who voted to keep the union.

I don't see anything terribly immediate on the horizon for a lot of pilots over your way simply because reducing the compensation package at a time when finding qualified pilots is tough wouldn't be a brilliant move. However, I don't think it'll be too terribly long before KR starts making things worse for everyone.

It'll be slowly. Maybe a change in schedule which adds a few workdays here and there over the year for no extra pay. More out of seniority upgrades. Various firings which will "coincidentally" be the strongest union supporters (or union leadership). Lots of little stuff that will add up to a much worse working environment. On the flip side, some of the biggest FOK's will be rewarded.

Worst part is, WHEN a lot more people realize oops, we do need a union! there isn't a union out there who will ever touch you again. Ever. Congrats to Ricci. You are now forever and permanently a non-union shop. Sorry, but unless you increase your seniority list to somewhere north of 1500 pilots, you won't have enough for an in-house union unless everyone wants to pay a very large sum of their paychecks as dues.

Good luck over there! The consequences of this are going to be worse than anticipated. As the first unionized pilot group to decert, EVER, the industry won't be kind to you, even if at least 220 of you don't deserve it. There's already talk of at least one major airline blackballing anyone from Flex/FLOPS from being hired there. I don't know if it's true, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. The example needs to be set that decertifying is not something the industry pilots want to take hold.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only relaying the background chatter. But yes, I do think the yes voters just took a big shotgun to your own feet. Again, good luck.
I was looking for an eye rolling emoji but we don’t have one.
First, HR departments hire pilots and nobody is going to be black balled. “There’s already talk” is the first line of any fake news propaganda.
Second, you are probably correct that work rules will be super efficient for the company. Plan on being rested and working hard, but also plan on excellent compensation. One offset will be fewer bogus fatigue calls that have already caused hardships on those who come to work to work.
Third, you underestimate KRs desire to dominate this industry so we can toss out your status quo premise. He will most likely control NJ someday in the future. It may explain why NJPA is so darn interested in our private matter.
 

EnFuego

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I was looking for an eye rolling emoji but we don’t have one.
First, HR departments hire pilots and nobody is going to be black balled. “There’s already talk” is the first line of any fake news propaganda.
Second, you are probably correct that work rules will be super efficient for the company. Plan on being rested and working hard, but also plan on excellent compensation. One offset will be fewer bogus fatigue calls that have already caused hardships on those who come to work to work.
Third, you underestimate KRs desire to dominate this industry so we can toss out your status quo premise. He will most likely control NJ someday in the future. It may explain why NJPA is so darn interested in our private matter.
This is a quote worth saving. Because you will want to rub his nose in it in about a year...:rolleyes: And there is the eye roll emoji. I found it on the first try...:rolleyes:
 

ghostrider64

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Super happy for you, super happy for all those NJA guys waiting for Southwest interviews because you guys are no longer welcome at LUV!
 

SDCFI

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Super happy for you, super happy for all those NJA guys waiting for Southwest interviews because you guys are no longer welcome at LUV!
I keep seeing this sentiment posted and don't understand it. The decert voters aren't going anywhere, they either buy into the delusional KR vision, or are the "trapped employees" he talks about in his most ironically named book ever. So the people who will be trying to leave are the pro union voters or those who are fired by the regime in retaliation for their union activity. Why make it harder for those folks to get out on the off chance you might end up with an anti union pilot? And if somehow a non union type does end up at a real unionized airline they will quickly be assimilated and see the error of their ways or be ostracized by the majority.
 

squawk

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I keep seeing this sentiment posted and don't understand it. The decert voters aren't going anywhere, they either buy into the delusional KR vision, or are the "trapped employees" he talks about in his most ironically named book ever. So the people who will be trying to leave are the pro union voters or those who are fired by the regime in retaliation for their union activity. Why make it harder for those folks to get out on the off chance you might end up with an anti union pilot? And if somehow a non union type does end up at a real unionized airline they will quickly be assimilated and see the error of their ways or be ostracized by the majority.
This assumes all unions are the same.
Some unions just suck, others are great.
ALPA is not IBT, neither is SWAPA or APA.
 

Kermit_D_Frog

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Anyone who voted to keep the union and is trying to get out better have some proof. I spoke with one last night who was a decerter. I was surprised. I don't think he truly knows what he did to himself. Actions have consequences.
 

EnFuego

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This assumes all unions are the same.
Some unions just suck, others are great.
ALPA is not IBT, neither is SWAPA or APA.
All Unions are the same. They are all as strong as the UNITY OF THE PILOTS. 318 pilots do suck, and that is why our Union was not strong.
 

DirtyBeech

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Don’t take squawk seriously. You may recall that he tried to bust up in here as being “on the fence” and just a few short days later was flipping the bird to half the pilot group in front of the IBT truck. In other words, he’s completely full of sh*t and willing to lie to you to push his agenda.

Like I said earlier, any means to an end.

Oh, btw, for anyone counting, original FJ’s just took it in the shorts with the dissolution of the ISL, are being made to sign those employee contracts that “aren’t worth the paper they’re written on” again, and those proclaiming that you don’t have to watch your 6 will be proven wrong again very shortly when the union leadership is terminated.

I feel very badly for my former Flex brethren, but the comeuppance followed by the “we warned you’s“ will be sweet to serve up to the decert crowd.
 

realityman

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I was looking for an eye rolling emoji but we don’t have one.
First, HR departments hire pilots and nobody is going to be black balled. “There’s already talk” is the first line of any fake news propaganda.
Second, you are probably correct that work rules will be super efficient for the company. Plan on being rested and working hard, but also plan on excellent compensation. One offset will be fewer bogus fatigue calls that have already caused hardships on those who come to work to work.
Third, you underestimate KRs desire to dominate this industry so we can toss out your status quo premise. He will most likely control NJ someday in the future. It may explain why NJPA is so darn interested in our private matter.
Uh huh.Right. You go on telling yourself whatever you need to in order to feel better about making the worst mistake in the history of aviation.

You know, you're right about one thing. Makes no real difference to me. When KR runs roughshod all over you because you have no real protections except his "promises" (I'm sorry, refresh my memory on how it went with the 401K thing and how many times he altered his "promise" of when he was giving back the match? And that's just the tip of the iceberg), I'll be enjoying the protections of my union contract. While KR upgrades people based on butt-kissing pucker and chapstick factors, I'll be enjoying bidding, and receiving, my airframes based on my seniority. While you can work your 16-hour day all nice and refreshed, I'll enjoy my maximum of 14 hours with hourly overtime paid out after 12 hours. While you enjoy your payscale based on who-knows-what, again watching KR's favorites get the most, I'll be enjoying my predictable, stable and contractual payscale over here. When KR pushes you to fly broken planes because hey, what are you gonna do if he disciplines you for refusing to do so, I'll be doing the professional thing without fear of retaliation thanks to having a union. Oh, the list is quite extensive, so you're right, no need to worry my ruggedly handsome face over your private matter.

Oh, maybe you should check again about a unions influence of hiring at the majors. Seems like they've had great success keeping scabs off the rolls of employment. I can't imagine doing the same with Flex pilots will be terribly difficult for them, if they actually choose to go that route.

I feel very sorry for those who voted to keep the union. They don't deserve what's coming next. It's a terrible position to be in. For the rest, I'll just say good luck. Everything you think KR will do for you now to make Flex a glorious place to be, he could've done with the union in place. All the successful airlines, and Netjets, have done so, even if the road to get there was bumpy. The fact that he fought it all the way should tell you all you need to know about how wonderful it's going to be.
 

CALRepublic

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I He will most likely control NJ someday in the future. It may explain why NJPA is so darn interested in our private matter.
WOW

Hey Kenn. Is that you? That’s gotta be you.
 
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squawk

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Uh huh.Right. You go on telling yourself whatever you need to in order to feel better about making the worst mistake in the history of aviation.

You know, you're right about one thing. Makes no real difference to me. When KR runs roughshod all over you because you have no real protections except his "promises" (I'm sorry, refresh my memory on how it went with the 401K thing and how many times he altered his "promise" of when he was giving back the match? And that's just the tip of the iceberg), I'll be enjoying the protections of my union contract. While KR upgrades people based on butt-kissing pucker and chapstick factors, I'll be enjoying bidding, and receiving, my airframes based on my seniority. While you can work your 16-hour day all nice and refreshed, I'll enjoy my maximum of 14 hours with hourly overtime paid out after 12 hours. While you enjoy your payscale based on who-knows-what, again watching KR's favorites get the most, I'll be enjoying my predictable, stable and contractual payscale over here. When KR pushes you to fly broken planes because hey, what are you gonna do if he disciplines you for refusing to do so, I'll be doing the professional thing without fear of retaliation thanks to having a union. Oh, the list is quite extensive, so you're right, no need to worry my ruggedly handsome face over your private matter.

Oh, maybe you should check again about a unions influence of hiring at the majors. Seems like they've had great success keeping scabs off the rolls of employment. I can't imagine doing the same with Flex pilots will be terribly difficult for them, if they actually choose to go that route.

I feel very sorry for those who voted to keep the union. They don't deserve what's coming next. It's a terrible position to be in. For the rest, I'll just say good luck. Everything you think KR will do for you now to make Flex a glorious place to be, he could've done with the union in place. All the successful airlines, and Netjets, have done so, even if the road to get there was bumpy. The fact that he fought it all the way should tell you all you need to know about how wonderful it's going to be.
Call me a scab to my face and you will be picking at your scabs for months.
 
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