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V.America- u know your pay rates are worse than Spirits, right?

hyflyin

Well-known member
Please stop. You're going to hurt yourself.

You're wrong again junior. Airlines are born with investors yes with deep pockets and then as the airline gets moving through a good business plan, marketing and growth. The revenue it generates allows it to become self sustaining and profitable.

Your case is the constant infusion of Branson's own money to stay afloat. If he quit subsidizing your airline it would fail.
In order to show profit you must have at least a core. We have just achieved that. Did Jblu magically make enough money with each and every a/c from the beginning to continue its growth or did it have to reach a specific size with specific assets before it started to make money?
 
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hyflyin

Well-known member
Is that all you can come up with junior?

The more you spew your dribble the more moronic you make yourself to be.

Your airline sucks, your disco shirt sucks and your pay still sucks. Keep huffin and puffin it's not going to change those facts.
Thats funny, many of your OWN pilots say the same thing about JBLU.

Pot meet kettle??
 

hyflyin

Well-known member
Is that all you can come up with junior?

The more you spew your dribble the more moronic you make yourself to be.

Your airline sucks, your disco shirt sucks and your pay still sucks. Keep huffin and puffin it's not going to change those facts.

Once again you prove my point. Thanks, what else you got??

Sorry, I don't have time to play with you anymore,

Bye, bye
 

NEDude

yada yada yada
Please stop. You're going to hurt yourself.

You're wrong again junior. Airlines are born with investors yes with deep pockets and then as the airline gets moving through a good business plan, marketing and growth. The revenue it generates allows it to become self sustaining and profitable.

Your case is the constant infusion of Branson's own money to stay afloat. If he quit subsidizing your airline it would fail.
Ummmm, hey buddy, you may want to check your facts there. Airlines are neither historically profitable nor self sustaining. Airlines are subsidised by deep pockets, bankruptcy courts, and government loans, not by good business plans.

Branson owns the brand and has a 25% stake in the company, it is far more 'his' airline that it is 'our' airline. He has every right to put his money into it. I also get the feeling he knows a little bit more about business and the airline industry than you do.

And since I know what is coming next, Virgin America was the most scrutinized start-up in history, and just recently went through another intense evaluation process by the DOT - the company does meet the requirements to be a legally operating, 75% US owned airline.
 

Fly2AK

Well-known member
I under stand everyones point. However, in 06 I had an opportunity to go to Allegiant but for reasons that need not be discussed I chose not to and at the time didn't worry to much about it. Back in those days it wasn't until your 9th year I believe that a captain would go over $100 per hr and they only topped at $103. Now the top pay is $153 (still needs work but getting there). I think it is unrealistic to think a new company is going to start with industry leading payrates. Initially they will start low and over time they will come up and it is up to the pilots to try and help that cause along. Right now however, VA's first couple years pay beat out UAL, US Airways (east), and Continental's. Granted VA contract tops out much lower, but last I recall Southwest was not always one of the highest paid pilots and was citicized for their pay. Now thousands of pilots would love to work for Southwest. Right now what our careers need is solidarity to try and retake back our lives one company at a time. I would have a problem with VA guys if they were screwing over the Spirit pilots or any other pilot that was trying to make a stand, but they are not and last I checked they were supporting them. I know VA has new payrates coming out, soon to be available on APC, so lets just wait and see what time brings. I know it won't be a significant increase but for now at least it is an increase and it was done without a union. However, I am hoping those in a position to will do what's right and follow the spirit pilot's example and stand united. My 2 cents, good luck to us all!
 

waveflyer

Well-known member
Yeah- I love it- pilots are such a contradiction- total conservatives who don't support unions nor capitalism.
 

BID

Well-known member
I under stand everyones point. However, in 06 I had an opportunity to go to Allegiant but for reasons that need not be discussed I chose not to and at the time didn't worry to much about it. Back in those days it wasn't until your 9th year I believe that a captain would go over $100 per hr and they only topped at $103. Now the top pay is $153 (still needs work but getting there). I think it is unrealistic to think a new company is going to start with industry leading payrates. Initially they will start low and over time they will come up and it is up to the pilots to try and help that cause along. Right now however, VA's first couple years pay beat out UAL, US Airways (east), and Continental's. Granted VA contract tops out much lower, but last I recall Southwest was not always one of the highest paid pilots and was citicized for their pay. Now thousands of pilots would love to work for Southwest. Right now what our careers need is solidarity to try and retake back our lives one company at a time. I would have a problem with VA guys if they were screwing over the Spirit pilots or any other pilot that was trying to make a stand, but they are not and last I checked they were supporting them. I know VA has new payrates coming out, soon to be available on APC, so lets just wait and see what time brings. I know it won't be a significant increase but for now at least it is an increase and it was done without a union. However, I am hoping those in a position to will do what's right and follow the spirit pilot's example and stand united. My 2 cents, good luck to us all!
VA's pay does not beat CAL in the first couple of years, only in the first year. Don't forget CAL has many 737-800, 900 aircraft so second year pay is closer to 67 dollars. This pay is very low and will hopefully change very soon !
 

Caveman

Grandpa
Remember that even though you can ‘dress up a pig’, in the end, a pig is still a pig.


Yeah good luck to 'em but your pay is still sh8t.
I'm not defending VA, but.......you had better check JetBlue's history. Our early pay rates were pitiful too. In fact it has only been with the recent pay raise that we reached middle of the pack. Give them some time. Hopefully they'll get there. If 5 years from now they are still way behind you might have a point.
 

Fly2AK

Well-known member
VA's pay does not beat CAL in the first couple of years, only in the first year. Don't forget CAL has many 737-800, 900 aircraft so second year pay is closer to 67 dollars. This pay is very low and will hopefully change very soon !
Va does have new pay rates that have yet been postedd on APC. However, my point is VA is still new where legacies like UAL, CAL US Airways have been around for many years and VA's first couple years are up with theirs and higher. Give them some time and if in a few years the pilots settle for lower wage then so be it. Remember Allegiant in 2006 topped at $103 per hour for an MD80 Captain. All the carriers and groups need work and it is time to stand together and take back our careers.
 

banger

Well-known member
If you were a 4 year FO at VA and upgraded to CA, would you be paid as a 4yr CA or a first year CA?
 

satlol

i bleed purple
1st year. And don't forget they use MERIT upgrade.
Totally incorrect on both counts. You will not start over at year 1 and they are no longer upgrading based on merit. I interviewed this week and verified both of these rumors with the CP.
 

Fubijaakr

Seniority is Forever
YEAH! That $105 Airbus Capt. pay rate is looking pretty good! There are Regional RJ jobs that pay more than that. And in ONLY 3 more YEARS the FIRST guy hired will top out at $120.

Nice.
 
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NEDude

yada yada yada
YEAH! That $105 Airbus Capt. pay rate is looking pretty good! There are Regional RJ jobs that pay more than that. And in ONLY 3 more YEARS the FIRST guy hired will top out at $120.

Nice.
You need a clue buddy. Compare apples to apples. Show me any RJ that pays a first or second year captain even remotely close to $105/hr.

Here is another argument using your logic - Virgin America pays A320 pilots more than United pays 747 pilots.
 

Fubijaakr

Seniority is Forever
You know why UAL's pay rates suck? Because when UAL went into bankruptcy court they asked for B6 pay rates at the time.

And check QX's top Capt. pay rate. Its HIGHER than Virgin's.
 
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