US Airways TA on RJs

Draginass

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Anybody confirm or deny this?:


"Last night US Airways and the ALPA Negotiating Committee reached a Tentative Agreement (TA) for the Company to operate 70 Regional Jets under the "Wholly Owned" operating certificate for Potomac Air. These jets would be flown by furloughed US Airways pilots and would create about 350 Captain and 350 First Officer positions.

There are some issues to be decided and the ALPA MEC will meet in special session for three days starting on Monday, April 15, in Pittsburgh, to decide whether or not to approve the TA.

The Company has given a deadline of Thursday, April 18 for an MEC decision (due to delivery dates) and the TA will receive MEC versus membership ratification."
 

skydiverdriver

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Just curious, why did you put this on the Regional airline interview board?
 

DASHDRIVER

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The Patomac Shuffle

Somhow I knew that POT would come around and bite us again. I wish we would have followed through and made them get rid of the cert. Now Mang has a way of getting around none of the WO willingness to jump at the J4J deal. Everyone bend over, I think its time for another round.
 

pilotdad

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wonder how this will "fly"

I wonder how this will "fly" with the other US Air codeshares, and what will it do to regional contract negotiations? I am betting these furloughed US Air guys are going to be making more dough than other RJ flyers flying similar planes. It is going to be a very interesting year. :eek:
 

rjcap

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If this TA is passed then the line between regional jet flying and major airline flying will disappear. Scope will continue its death spiral and the discrepancy in pay and work rules will become a major issue.

I have to wonder if the USAIR major furloughees really want to come back to fly RJ's at substantially lower wages and more restrictive work rules ?

Where is the ALPA leadership in all of this mess ??????
 

skydiverdriver

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Yup. The sad thing is that all of the airlines that finally embrased flying smaller jets at the mainline did it when it was too late to help. Pan Am tried this, Midway was trying it, and America West used to have Dash-8's. Now, if some foreward thinking major were to have small jets on the mailine property, they could compete with low cost airlines, and still have the international service that the low cost guys don't. That would be an airline that nobody could compete against....I just hope they don't wait until it's too late.....
 

ASAFOE120

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Well, here it is I guess.

UGLY TA

A sign of desperation if I ever saw one. How many confangled ideas is one allowed before that final airbus departs PHL??


ASA FO
 

DASHDRIVER

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Captain PAY!!!

The temp agreement calls for 350 cap and 350 FO positions under the POT certificate. At least 50% of the pilots must be furloughes of Mainline U. All Furloughes will recieve Captain PAY regardless of seat. I just talked to my union rep and he said that alter ego infringements are being investegated. Stock went up .42 though I guess somone likes this deal.
 

trigeek

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SDD,
How can RJ's compete against a low cost carrier like SWA? There is absolutely no way you can even get close to twice their seat cost. RJ's make money on high yield routes and by not having to "give" seats away to fill the aircraft. There is nothing "low cost" per seat about an RJ.....just the labor that operates and supports it.
 

rjcap

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trigeek,

I continue to see the "seat cost" term used again and again on the web board when referrring to the RJ.

Seat costs are only relevant if the aircraft is full. I will agree that a full 737 or md 88 has a much lower seat cost when full than an RJ 50. However, if there are 50 pax or less, the operating margin of the RJ will surpass that of the larger aircraft.

I agree that this gets more complicated when you factor in seat yields. But with 50 or less pax the Rj will consistently give you a better op margin then the larger aircraft with empty seats.

For the right markets the RJ makes an excellent margin. Doubling the cost of a flight crew for the typical 1 hour leg flight won't make a dent in that margin.

In small markets the RJ will definitely outperform Southwest with their larger aircraft. Southwest is meticulous in the markets they will and will not enter for this exact reason. Thats one of the reasons they continue to be the best run operation.
 

Vinman

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I have a question, what is going to happen to all these mainline guys when (hopefully not if) they get called back? How will an airline operate if all of a sudden all your pilots leave because they have been recalled? Or will these guys have to remain in the RJ until replacements can be trained at which point they could return, but not before someone less senior goes back because he held out on furlough instead of flying an RJ?:eek:
 

trigeek

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rjcap,
Seat cost is relevant regardless of loads. Yeild is what is effected by half full aircraft. A rough example:

I don't know the actual operating cost of a CRJ. I'll use 13 cents per ASM. For a 50 seat RJ, then it cost $6.50 per air mile flown.

Using $6.50 as a base number, then a 112 seat 737 would need to have a 5.8 cent ASM cost to match the per air mile operating cost. SWA operates near that range. Overall they are higher. However, they are operating the -700's closer to the 4.5-5.0 cent ASM range. SWA can very easily put those very efficient airplanes on competing routes. They match or beat your operating cost and offer over twice the capacity.

Granted these are not hard numbers. They do illustrate my point however.
 

sabreliner

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For those of you with access, the private ALPA main message board has a very large thread going on this subject in the scope section. Very interesting, with lots of varied opinions. Check it out.

Personally, I think this TA is abd for everybody!
 

LR25

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USAir, what an orginization!
 
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