United Looking to Snuff RJ Growth

MetroSheriff

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From AirTransport World:

United may seek RJ deferrals at codeshare partners
Dateline: Tuesday December 18, 2001

United Airlines may ask its United Express codeshare partners, including Atlantic Coast Airlines and SkyWest, to defer deliveries of regional jets intended for UA codeshare operations, according to UBS Warburg analyst Jamie Baker.

United previously approached its Regional partners about achieving rate reductions under their fee-for-departure contracts and a second round of negotiations is underway, according to Baker. SkyWest and Atlantic Coast did not return calls seeking comment in time to be included in this report.
According to Baker, the thinking is that United's pilots are unlikely to agree to contract concessions unless RJ flying by codeshare partners is reduced in 2002. Earlier the Air Line Pilots Assn. demanded that United drastically cut RJ flying in line with its 26% reduction in mainline capacity after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Although United disputed that such a step was necessary under the current contract, it apparently has yet to furlough any pilots despite the schedule reductions.
 
G

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this could be an opportunity for Delta to have Skywest accept those jets and put them on Delta Connection routes, instead of United Express routes.
 

MetroSheriff

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Yeah, that would be great. What DCI really needs is for more of the flying to be given to non-union code sharing, fee for departure partners, at the expense of Delta's wholly owned subsidiaries. That would be swell.

The whipsaw tactics are really great for the industry. Plus with more of the DCI flying spread out amongst multiple carriers, ASA will be robbed of the chance to help raise the bar for the regional industy in the next round of contract negotiations. That will benefit us all.


(Sarcasm intended):rolleyes:
 

Andy Neill

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MetroSheriff,

It seems that noonereally was responding to your post in the spirit you intended with a suggestion that United's efforts to "snuff RJ growth" could be side-stepped by placing delivery positions with their competitors, Delta. You took that post with umbrage and launched on your reliable non-union/whipsaw rant.

It seems that the only acceptable solutions from your point of view is that CRJs go to Comair/ASA, only to Comair/ASA, and in unlimited quantities.
 

ifly4food

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Andy Neill said:
MetroSheriff,

It seems that noonereally was responding to your post in the spirit you intended with a suggestion that United's efforts to "snuff RJ growth" could be side-stepped by placing delivery positions with their competitors, Delta. You took that post with umbrage and launched on your reliable non-union/whipsaw rant.

It seems that the only acceptable solutions from your point of view is that CRJs go to Comair/ASA, only to Comair/ASA, and in unlimited quantities.
Andy, I think most ASA pilots would agree with Metro. Yes, we would like to be getting those airplanes. We are the wholly-owned and you are the outsiders. We feel entitled to what we were promised when we first began expanding, which has now been given away. From our viewpoint, you and ACA are the ones getting unlimited resources.

And yes, whether you like it or not, your pilot group is being used to whipsaw us. I understand that there's nothing you can do about it. Just try to understand why this is a hot issue in DFW and ATL and will continue to be one.
 

MetroSheriff

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I would hardly call it a "reliable non-union, whipsaw rant" but again, I understand that it is all a matter of perspective.

But your point is well taken, and I will attempt to clarify my true feelings, which may run contradictory to hard line "wholly-owned only" thinkers.

First, on the issue of non-union. It is NOT my belief that because a pilot group is non-union, they are not entitled to any share of the flying. It is my understanding, from both friends and aquaintences (sp) that a fair majority of you would like to see Skywest vote in a union. It is a fact, however, that until such time as that happens, your ability (as a group) to support a job action on the part of another carrier (ASA, Comair, ACA, etc) COULD be severely limited at the whim of your management. That is my sole contention reagrding the "non-union issue". Please don't miscontrue this to mean that no union=no share of the pie.

Second, as far as the whipsaw issue goes. I think it is fair to say that if the flying is going to be spread out amongst the different regional hubs, which is already happening. It would be nice to see it spread fairly, opposed to the lopsided expansion that we see right now. I would like the decisions for areas of growth and expansion be made by Delta based on a carriers ability to handle that expansion, vs. the method that APPEARS to be used right now, which is "Well, Comair's contract is in the bag, Skywest we don't have to worry about, but ASA is up for renegotiation, hmmm...where should the flying go".

To take the issue of my sarcastic "whipsaw rant" one step further, I think we all agree that whipsaw benefits none of us. Comair did their share with the strike, Air Whisky and ACA, too. Now it is ASA's turn to do what we can to raise the regional bar. Having no leverage means we will be limited in what we can achieve. What we achieve, or lack thereof, helps or hurts us all. I am not being selfish, quite the contrary, I want it to improve for us all, and the tactics being used hinder the opportunity for us to do our share. I hope you can see and understand the difference.
 
G

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To all who have responded,

I don't like being whipsawed either, but my original response was merely an observation. I certainly think there is room for all of us (ASA/Comair/ACA/Skywest), but if my post comes to be, it certainly doesn't help in the contract negotiations.

No offense to anyone intended.

Glad to have a flying job,
NoOneReally
 

MetroSheriff

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Noonereally,

I agree wholeheartedly that, strategically speaking, this is a GREAT opportunity for Delta, and DCI (wholly owned and code shares). Delta has more RJ's flying in their colors than anyone. United is potentially hamstrung from further RJ growth and, potentially, RJ fleet reduction. We all know the RJ is an excellent market penetration a/c. If United can't get their sh1t together, let's run a shopping cart thru their markets and grow like a weed. When the loads justify a bigger a/c, get mainline in there and get our mainline brothers off the street and back in the saddle making money for big D.

We have all read the RJ market surveys and fancy RJ strategy pamphlets explaining Delta's plans for market penetration. All the DCI carriers and mainline should support this type of move. This is what the RJ was built to do, quit using it as a narrowbody mainline replacement and let's raid United's back yard.

Just don't leave one of the kids (ASA) home from the picnic.
 

ifly4food

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Well said Metro.
It's time for Delta and all of it's ugly red headed step children to work together at capitalizing on UAL's weakness.
However, if Delta continues to use whipsaw tactics to divide us they are going to end up with a crippling strike instead.
 

FlyinBrian

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I certainly think there is room for all of us
We've got the same thing going on at Eagle with TSA and CHQ (AMerican Connection), and I guarantee there isn't room for all of us. In our case, this is because of an ASM limitation imposed on AA feeders while AA has pilots on furlough. It is very irritating to see our own company farming out our flying to other carriers while we have airplanes parked and pilots on the street.
 

FlyDeltasJets

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FlyinBrian said:


It is very irritating to see our own company farming out our flying to other carriers while we have airplanes parked and pilots on the street.

I know the feeling.
 

Theflyingtito

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hmm....

We all have to see the bigger picture of capitalism and the pure choice of Delta and United to do whatever the heck they want when it comes to who they prefer to expand. Preference means who they think will serve the "Express" or "Connection" flights in the best way possible. Sorry it wasn't your company. Wow, your a pilot, you must be really smart and know what's best for your company or it's parent.

I find humor in how we see people take this information personal. When Delta or United get in their respective management meetings, they don't choose your company cause your there.

For the major pilots. The nation's traveling revolves around the majors so squash the commuter or RJ growth. Nevermind that it's best for air travelers and the companies both. Boo Hoo that we are infringing on your multi six figure career. How quickly we forget.

In the long scope of things, we are JUST employees of a our own chosen company. The beggers who can't be choosers if you will. Where is it written that THEY have to do what we think is fair?

I am looking forwward to a company who will model JetBlue or Southwest and do it with RJ's.
 

FlyDeltasJets

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Does anyone have any idea what the hell he just said?
 
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Visceral

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Hehe,
Disjointed, fragmented, and a little ambitious it seems, but I think he's saying (to someone) stop feeling sorry for yourself if you work for a regional that isn't getting favors from the big boys. I think....;)
 
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