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UAL-UAX Concerns

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AWACoff said:
What about the mainline guys giving lectures and generally chewing out the UAX jumpseaters. We aren't the ones making the decisions about where to fly. Take your beef up with your management. So much for being in this together...


AWACoff, you're using the exception as the rule. I've had a ton of jumpseaters from just about every carrier out there pre and post-911, and I have NEVER seen one get any type of lecture from pilots or FAs. And that includes USAirways pilots jumpseating during the acrimonious proposed buyout days.
Come to think of it, I can't recall a single time where we've touched on sensitive subjects, except for when an AAL pilot was on the jumpseat (pre 911), discussing the AAL/TWA seniority merge. We allowed him to vent without engaging him in confrontational debate.
AWACoff, please give specifics of incidents. Not to say that they don't occur, but there are a LOT of pilots who jumpseat on UAL without any problem. And believe me, I fully understand that we have more than a couple of jackarses here at UAL. I've had the pleasure of flying with more than one of them, as I'm sure that you've had the pleasure of flying with one or two at AWAC.
 
The instances occured when we picked up a bunch of flying out of LAX. I certainly see both sides of the coin. United is furloughing and suddenly giving LAX flying to UAX. Yes, that seems wrong but there isn't anything the line guys can do about it. I apologize if I have stirred up a hornets nest.
 
Marko,

The very subject you mention about Comair pilots including a direct quote from you is posted on the Comair ALPA messageboard. It lead into a rather lengthy discussion. The general consensus seems to be that Comair pilots want to be as loyal to UAL pilots as they were to us during the strike. No one has heard anything about intentionally not hiring furloughed UAL pilots. On the other hand rumor has it that Comair won’t hire furloughed Delta pilots because that has what has been dictated down from Delta mainline management. Apparently Delta doesn’t want to absorb the cost of training DAL mainline pilots into the RJ, just to have to re-train them in their previous mainline equipment 6 months down the road. They want to hire folks that come with plans on sticking around a while instead. The “virtual” Comair management has very little to do with running this airline. If you don’t believe me do a stock symbol lookup for Comair. Doesn’t exist anymore. Guess who calls all the shots now.

Now I’ll insert my personal opinion. My guess is if a UAL furloughee decided to interview with Comair, they would fair quite well upon forfeiting their UAL seniority. Not much chance of that happening anyway. Unfortunately, a DAL pilot wouldn’t even get an interview. Believe me, if the pilots were doing the hiring that would be a very different story.

Now I send you all my personal “thanks for your support” letter. Yes, I do remember the burden all the other ALPA pilots had to bare in the form of strike assessment checks. It kept my family fed. I wish I had the power to change things. You guys are my hero’s. I don’t have much to offer you in return for all that you’ve done for us, but a fuloughee is at least welcome to some of my “friends and family passes” (=UAL Companion passes) on Delta if they need them at the very least. I’m sure most other Comair pilots would as well. If I didn’t live in a closet right now, I would welcome them in my home too.

JetLee
Comair/FO/CVG
(also son of a UAL retiree)
 
United may seek RJ deferrals at codeshare partners
Tuesday December 18, 2001

United Airlines may ask its United Express codeshare partners, including Atlantic Coast Airlines and SkyWest, to defer deliveries of regional jets intended for UA codeshare operations, according to UBS Warburg analyst Jamie Baker.

United previously approached its Regional partners about achieving rate reductions under their fee-for-departure contracts and a second round of negotiations is underway, according to Baker. SkyWest and Atlantic Coast did not return calls seeking comment in time to be included in this report.
According to Baker, the thinking is that United's pilots are unlikely to agree to contract concessions unless RJ flying by codeshare partners is reduced in 2002. Earlier the Air Line Pilots Assn. demanded that United drastically cut RJ flying in line with its 26% reduction in mainline capacity after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Boz
 
Sorry,

But I have to echo what AWACoff said in previous posts.

I jumpseated for a year back and forth to Denver on United. Now I greatly appreciate getting that free ride and for the most part, the pilots I rode with were great. But on more than one occassion, I was spoken to about how the mainline jobs were suffering because of regional and commuter guys like great lakes pilots. Granted, GLA was much less of a target in these rants as AWAC, ACA, and Skywest, but nonetheless, we were still mentioned. I think it is sad when you are jumpseating, and introduce yourself to the crew, and they ask who you work for, to follow your response up with something like "sorry to hear that"
or "Great Mistakes, huh!". It is unprofessional and discourteous as hell.

While I worked at Great Lakes, I remember carrying vast amounts of jumpseaters from small cities where we were the only carrier serving that airport/area. And yes that included United Pilots as well. The point is that while I appreciated the lift when I was riding, it was a reciprocal agreement. And I never made poor comments to any of my jumpseaters.

If it had happened only once, I would not be posting this. It happened several times over the course of a year. But as I said before, the vast majority were friendly crews who I enjoyed jumpseating with. I just felt that AWACoff needed a little backing since I and others have seen this happen also.
 
1900Laker,

Your post is an everyday story! Major's carry jumpseaters of all airlines in a reciprocal agreement. What I am trying to figure out is why you are posting this issue here other than your support for AWAC.

You stated:
I think it is sad when you are jumpseating, and introduce yourself to the crew, and they ask who you work for, to follow your response up with something like "sorry to hear that"
or "Great Mistakes, huh!". It is unprofessional and discourteous as hell.

Yes this is unprofessional, and I agree with you. But as a current jumpseater you should realize that the crew is required to ask who you work for and verify your identity. As far as the GLA comment that is quite rude. I can tell you I know and work with many wonderful pilots from GLA and others. The "GREAT MISTAKES" comment comes from many Lakers who have made it to the major and share there horror stories of working there. It is this preception that formulates this type of comment.

I realize that many commuters treat there employees with very little respect as they see them as a stepping stone to someplace better. But I can also share many stories of these pilots that appear to be no better then UAL crew in making inappropriate comments of there carrier. Obviously they have a terrible story to share and it comes up in the course of the flight. In fact, many times I will steer the conversation to another subject since they have such hatefull comments to share. As far as UAL guys I can tell you we have pilots that are no different than any other airline and make the mistakes of saying unprofessional comments.

Good for you that you do not folow this practice, but I still can't see what this has to do with the UAL - UAX post. I can tell you I have jumpseated on GLA and these comments are unfortunate, but they are a fact. It is going to happen. While riding on Eagle not to long ago, this came up while riding in an EMB RJ and the Captain was visibly upset at AA. So again, there is no perfect cockpit, and you will have to just tough it out during the course of your ride.

So maybe share a more positive experience/story with a crew like the one you encounterd at UAL that would make them realize that GLA wasn't all that bad. I am sure they are not all bad stories and you could educate an ignorant crew. But the fact is that GLA pilots have done this to themselves and this comment will cease if we hear that they are GLA the "greatest little airline" remember that one. I have said that to GLA pilots and they laugh at me. I do see there service and commitment to the the transportation industry as quite important. Plus, they are the only carrier that might serve grandma's farm or rural town.

All in all they are a great group of professionals and I look forward to flying with many more of them.

Boz
 
flyermon said:
UAL guys will get what they want. RJ deferals at UAX and any job openings there too.

It's by no means guaranteed what will happen on either side of the coin in this situation. If RJ deferals occur, it's because United's management decide to completely ignore its pilot contract when reducing its fleet. Other carriers have reduced and furloughed, but they haven't violated their minimum fleet or ASM minimums, so while it's uncomfortable for all involved, it's still legal so far. UAL chose to ignore the contract, and it's looks like they will have pay some sort of consequence down the line. Those RJ's were agreed to based on a minimum mainline fleet, so it's only fair that some adjustments occur now that the fleet size has been changed. As far as hiring goes, I don't think any of the carriers are hiring right now, and even if they were I don't think they will be interviewing any of us UAL furloughees. I don't think we deserve to take any jobs away from current(including furloughed) UAX pilots, but I do feel that we should have the right to compete for for any future openings. If an agreement is reached that allows the UAX carriers the ability to continue to grow and allows UA to compete in the RJ game, I don't think UAL furloughees at the bottom of the list is too heavy a price to pay for that. Their training costs are already rolled into the cost-plus contracts, so those carriers are monetarily covered for any future recalls. They prosper, we prosper, there are worse things.
 
Boz,

Fair enough. You're right that this has very little to do with the original post. But I felt AWACoff was taking some heat from some of the other posters, and I wanted to back up his side a little, from someone who came through the commuter route.

It is difficult to put into words on a board like this the way someone expresses an idea to you. I can assure you though that I know the difference between those giving you a friendly nudge with the elbow about where you work, and those that are condescending. I saw this seldom while jumping on United, but much more seldom over the past year while working at Champion and Jumping on Northwest, which has a similar relationship as many mainline and regional pairs do. But I digress.

This all off the topic of your post, so I will bow out of the conversation now.
 

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