The RJDC is a cancer on the industry

ifly4food

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"We're suing for equal representation". What does that mean?
The RJDC was founded because the Delta ALPA pilots won a scope clause in their contract limiting flying at Delta Connection. The scope states that anything above a certain percentage must be performed by Delta pilots. This scope clause is not unique to this industry. It protects jobs at the mainline from being farmed out to cheaper labor at the regional level.
The RJDC was formed and they asked ALPA, their own union to stop this. ALPA refused, because scope clauses are what keeps the management bean counters from outsourcing. The RJDC then proceded to sue their own union (no, it's members didn't resign, so they're actually suing themselves) "for failure to represent all members". Their complaint is that they weren't represented in the scope discussion and their careers were limited without thier input. They seek Millions of dollars from ALPA which would bankrupt a union that has been around for over 50 years.

They say they are suing for representation. What they want, then in essense, is to reverse scope and be represented in new scope discussions.
This would be management's "wet dream". If the RJDC wins, no labor contract's scope clause could stand and nothing would stop airline management from outsourcing all flying to the lowest bidder.
Inagine Mesa flying Delta 777s with pilots paid $40 and hour. This would not be an impossibility because without a scope clause in your contract you can't stop it.
ALPA has fought to imprive the pay and working conditions of pilots for over 50 years. It is among the most respected organizations in aviation, and has done more to improve this industry than anyone. Without ALPA, pilots would not have the rewarding careers, work rules, or benefits. The RJDC's actions will destroy all of this forever.

The RJDC doesn't want you to look at it this way. The twist words, spin facts and tell half-truths. They will do anything and say anything to increase their coffers and win new members. Don't be fooled. The RJDC has done nothing to further this industry. Allign yourself with the side that will always help all airline pilots, not just a faction .

Do you want to spend your entire career flying an RJ with a max pay of $110,000 per year with no retirement benefits? If so, than go RJDC.
It's your career, your life, your retirement. Choose wisely.
 

GoingHot

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ifly4food,

Well said, but, "Caution". You are about to enter a "Flame Zone".
 

MetroSheriff

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IFlyforFood,

Couldn't have said it better myself.
 

c172

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WHAT IS RJDC

What is RJDC Ithink I know but not sure :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 

Beechnut

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Flame!

This is clearly flame bate. It seems as though the author is trying to start something with SkyDiverDriver. Hopefully Ifly4food will read this and close or remove the thread like he has done other RJDC threads.

Oh wait, it was started by Ifly.

Isn't that funny.

S.
 

typhoonpilot

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When I first read about the RJDC I thought it was a bad joke. I guess some people like to shoot themselves in the foot so they can't climb the ladder. Any pilot that wants to work for a major should steer clear of the RJDC.

As I have said before, scope clauses are put in place to protect the piloting profession as a whole not to disadvantage Regional pilots.
 

ifly4food

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Re: Flame!

Beechnut said:
This is clearly flame bate. It seems as though the author is trying to start something with SkyDiverDriver. Hopefully Ifly4food will read this and close or remove the thread like he has done other RJDC threads.

Oh wait, it was started by Ifly.

Isn't that funny.

S.
Oh, I see, the RJDC supporters can post whatever they want and it's fine, but someone comes out against the RJDC and it's flamebait that should be removed (though none of the RJDC debates were closed). The hypocrasy in the RJDC supporters becomes apparent!

View it as flamebait if you like. I call it a rebuttal. You do like to debate don't you? Or will you just whine that the beloved RJ Defense Coalition is being put down by some big mouthed meanie?

It's time the truth about the RJDC was known to all here, not just one sided lies.
 
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FL000

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The worst part about the lawsuit is that most major pilots think that most regional pilots support the RJDC. They couldn't be farther from the truth. RJDC is supported by a very vocal minority. While I can see why they're p/o'd at ALPA, suing them is not the answer. I would think that anyone who is a known supporter of the suit will not stand a chance at a major interview, regardless of the outcome. If the lawsuit is successful, there won't be a major interview to go to. Way to go, RJDC.

SDD took umbrage at the fact that the RJDC was compared to the KKK. Obviously, the RJDC is not a hate group, but there are some similarities in their behavior. Because of the inflammatory nature of their actions, they feel a need to be anonymous, except among their fellow supporters. They rarely make their comments known to the adversary face to face (on a major jumpseat), but might reveal their angst to those who have similar roots (in the regional crew lounge or cockpit). Though I have no particular desire to, I still don't know the name of a single RJDC supporter. If it's such a noble cause, step up to the plate and take the hood off.
 

TurboS7

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From what I hear the RJ is a souped up piece of junk that couldn't handle the rigors of mainline airline flying. After an ex-RJ pilot explained the systems to me it is not a jet but an inbetween, useless for hardcore flying.
 

FL000

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TurboS7,

I'll be shocked if anyone takes your bait...actually...no, I won't. Y'all have fun now, y'hear.
 

Braniff

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Iflyforfood is right though.

The RJDC are the guys that, for some reason, can't make it to the majors. In fact, they're usually the guys that turn their backs on you when you leave for a better job.

Braniff
 

AeroBoy

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RJDC

I think everyone is missing the point here. The RJDC is basically saying that it's not right that ALPA screwed the regional pilots in favor of the mainline pilots, even though they're supposed to be represented fairly and equally by the same union. It's a conflict of interest that ALPA is representing both pilot groups, and ALPA should have therefore told one of the groups (presumably the regional pilots) that it was unable to represent them fairly and they should join (or form) another union. ALPA should not be taking the regional pilot's hard-earned money (of what little they have) and then turning around and selling them down the river to the mainline pilots. It's just not right, and the RJDC is justified in blowing the whistle on ALPA on this one...whether IFF or anyone else likes it or not.

PS-I don't think the RJDC opposes scope overall, just the way this clause was rammed down their throats without any say. If ALPA takes the RJ pilots' money, should they have been represented in some way in this deal? Are the guys from Enron working at ALPA since ALPA has no ethics in this case?

Just my two cents.
 

TurboS7

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It is really not bait, I know nothing of the airplane, its numbers are impressive but this FO I fly with hated it. He quote said," that RJ drivers were no more than prop guys that had no where to go." He used to fly for Midway..... With that out of the way I always thought it was a pretty cool airplane(if just flown in it as a passenger) and it would be neat to run an RJ mainline airline. When I mentioned that to my FO he came unglued and couldn't say enough bad things about the airplane. I need some RJ pilot's real opinions, like how many dmi's you carry, what type of backup systems you have etc. Just for my own personal information.
 

Timebuilder

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As a past member of several unions, I have to agree with Aeroboy. Why should a pilot pays dues to ALPA at Comair, and have the union he is funding then act against his interests? Compound this with the fact that the Comair ALPA membership has no seat at scope negotiations when bargaining with a company that owns BOTH airlines? HELLO?????

I'd be suing my union for failing to negotiate on my behalf. This could be a violation of the union's certification under federal law.

ALPA is being called on the carpet for being the servant of two masters: Mathew 6:24 ....No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.

I'm certain that there are many nuances, policies and prejudices at work here that I am unfamiliar with. I'm speaking not as an airline pilot, manager, or other principal, but as a party with a long-term interest, and a background in union activity.

Clearly, this needs to be fixed. If there were not an RJDC, how would this fixing be accomplished?
 
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Braniff

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ALPA didn't screw regional pilots.

Senior pilots at RJDC wanna screw EVERYONE.

I WAS a regional pilot. Regional flying, no matter what you think absolutely SUCKS so I put my resumes out and got hired by a global airline.

The only thing that SUCKS is the fact that RJDC wants to give airlines the ability to give the flying to the lowest bidder and abrogate scope.

Scope is the one thing that keeps managements from outsourcing ALL narrowbody flying to regionals and ALL international flying to codeshare carriers.

You weren't going to get 777's at a regional airline, it's not ALPA's fault.

You get what you negotiate.

Braniff
 

Braniff

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Why should you pay dues at ALPA?

Because of the strike assessment that all of us at ALPA paid while Comair was on strike.

Hey, I've got financial reponsibilities myself and I supported your efforts during negotiations and ALWAYS paid my assessment on time.

Did management give you the contract you won at Comair because they thought you guys were cool? Nope, because you NEGOTIATED the contract with SUPPORT from ALPA and ALPA pilots nationwide.

Try flying for a non-union airline and see where that gets you. If you want out of ALPA because we're not representing your best interests, form an independent union -- worked for AMR.

Besides, a $100,000,000 lawsuit is a slap in the face.
 

Timebuilder

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That's the point, my friend. Why would I pay someone to negotiate AGAINST me?
 

FL000

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Timebuilder said:
Clearly, this needs to be fixed. If there were not an RJDC, how would this fixing be accomplished?
Timebuilder,

Someone with the gumption should start a union which represents regional pilots. I'd move over in a heartbeat. Of course it's not that simple, but it could be done.
 

Timebuilder

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You're right. Stranger things have happened. Who would start such a union, a former regional pilot/lawyer, perhaps out on disability?
 

Braniff

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Funny how your name is "Time Builder" and you don't see the danger in erasing scope.

Without scope, you'll be building time for notoriety because no one will be hiring for a very long time.

ALPA does not negotiate against you.

Now if your company owned 737's and 747's an ALPA said that you had to get RID of them, ok, perhaps that could be a problem.

But saying that your career is hampered because your company went from Navajos to Banderantes to Brasilias to a butt-load of Rj's, I really doubt if ANYONE is holding back your career.

Don't get deprogrammed by the "lifers" in RJDC. Those are the same guys that couldn't figure out how to get hired by a global carrier when UAL, DAL, CAL, NWA and AMR had their hottest hiring cycles in our generation.

Don't let them destroy OUR (me, you and the guy training in the Tomahawk) profession.
 
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