The end of Comair

glasspilot1

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It is indeed a very sad day that the airline I enjoyed 16 years and 4 months. Comair will be shut down exactly 8 years after My retirement...................

Thank you.

Jim Smith
Comair Retired
Jim,

I had to do some math, so you were hired 24+ years ago? I was hired in mid 1985, was there 2 1/2 years. You must know M. McClure and P. Rodgers, they were just a few months senior to me. They decided to make Comair a career, hope they can move on successfully.

Andy Brothers
Wheeler (don't ask), Comair, TWA, AA retired
 

glasspilot1

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Crazy to think Delta spent 1.8 Billion to buy Comair only 12 years ago. And now its gonna shut down. Amazing!!
When I was there in the mid '80's Delta already owned 20% of Comair, but Comair could still do what they wanted. They were growing like mad. Once I heard Delta bought the rest of them out I thought: "That's the beginning of the end of them".
 

pilotyip

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Ahhh, you're management. That explains a lot. :rolleyes:
But always remember that without management there are no airline jobs. And for those who have all the answers, it is your duty to come into management and make it better. In the end it is all about profit, and the consumer of airline tickets will determine weather an airline makes a profit and succeeds or fails to make an adequate profit and fails.
 
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JonnyKnoxville

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I think you forgot the Seibs left Comair after the DAL buyout. He wasn't there for the 2 years before the strike, he had oversight of DL Connection. That's why he was sent in at the end to close the deal. As I said, the final day before the strike, Siebs had a blank check to close the deal. The union negotiators never came to the table. They were dragged out of their room by the arbitrator, was there for 15 minutes and left. There was nothing achieved after 89 days that couldn't have been agreed upon the day before. Comair came a lot closer to ending it's existance the first time that summer, and only when it became apparent they were serious was the contract ratified.

All this is ancient history, but it is what began what is happening now.
You are missing the point. You clearly are not upper management because you can not see the forest for the trees. I know your right in the fact that the Comair pilots really ruffled feathers with the strike. But you do not kill a multi-billion dollar investment because someone's ego gets hurt. If you really think that is the case, Delta must really lack the ability to follow through with their plans because it took over a decade to act on their emotional decision.

Everything the Comair pilots gained during the strike was taken away in bankruptcy. At that point, they were as competitive as any other regional. The reason Delta killed Comair is because they needed someone to take the hit on the RJ reduction. 150 RJs must come out of the DCI system because of ECONOMICS of those airplanes and every other DCI carrier except Comair has their flying contractually protected. Therefore, it was an easy choice for Delta to make.

Pinnacle is next in taking a huge hit, because Delta is not done getting rid of RJs and Pinnacle is in bankruptcy and able to void contracts. Pinnacle will see this reduction as a simple business decision by Delta. This decision made by Delta will not be an emotional one because the mechanics or the gate agents or the flight attendants or the pilots are not liked by Delta management as you may think.
 
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Cobraair75drvr

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None of you are thinking longterm like management. 1.8 billion (which they get to write off) is peanuts. The resetting of mainline wages, workrules and retirements due to the shift in flying to the regionals during that period was covered in less than 2 years. There is a small need for the regionals, but imho they were built up with one thing in mind. Resetting the profession. Now that all of the majors have been "reset" you are seeing the dismantling of the regionals back to their natural state.


Crazy to think Delta spent 1.8 Billion to buy Comair only 12 years ago. And now its gonna shut down. Amazing!!
 

WSurf

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None of you are thinking longterm like management. 1.8 billion (which they get to write off) is peanuts. The resetting of mainline wages, workrules and retirements due to the shift in flying to the regionals during that period was covered in less than 2 years. There is a small need for the regionals, but imho they were built up with one thing in mind. Resetting the profession. Now that all of the majors have been "reset" you are seeing the dismantling of the regionals back to their natural state.
I agree! What happened is that you had RJ Captain's making 100k a year flying 50 Seaters and Mainline making 160k flying 200 seaters.
You right in the fact the Regional pay started going up in the late 90's and the Mainline Pay dropped a ton. Now its more economical to go back to more mainline flying and less Regional.
Gonna be a interesting next few years. Time for everyone in the regionals to get the Logbooks up to date.
 

Bugsmasher Plus

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You are missing the point. You clearly are not upper management because you can not see the forest for the trees. I know your right in the fact that the Comair pilots really ruffled feathers with the strike. But you do not kill a multi-billion dollar investment because someone's ego gets hurt. If you really think that is the case, Delta must really lack the ability to follow through with their plans because it took over a decade to act on their emotional decision.

Everything the Comair pilots gained during the strike was taken away in bankruptcy. At that point, they were as competitive as any other regional. The reason Delta killed Comair is because they needed someone to take the hit on the RJ reduction. 150 RJs must come out of the DCI system because of ECONOMICS of those airplanes and every other DCI carrier except Comair has their flying contractually protected. Therefore, it was an easy choice for Delta to make.

Pinnacle is next in taking a huge hit, because Delta is not done getting rid of RJs and Pinnacle is in bankruptcy and able to void contracts. Pinnacle will see this reduction as a simple business decision by Delta. This decision made by Delta will not be an emotional one because the mechanics or the gate agents or the flight attendants or the pilots are not liked by Delta management as you may think.
I wasn't in upper management but was high enough in the food chain to know how much misinformation the MEC was feeding the pilots.

In October of 2003, Delta came to Comair first with the opportunity to fly more 70 seat aircraft and the company asked the pilots to open up the contract. The union told Comair to pound sand.

Delta gave you guys the opportunity to be competitive FIRST. This was indeed a union issue. Had the contract been reopened in 2003, the 50 seat issue would not have been there during the following years. Comair would have been competitive with the rest of the regionals and there is a good chance that it would have at least been a viable asset that could have been sold as ASA, Compass and Mesaba were.

Instead, they had the 50 seaters and a union nobody wanted any part of. In the end it was indeed the cost structure, but the foundation had crumbled due to the actions of JC and Corey.
 

Cpt Oveur

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Doesn't Comair only operate 16 CRJ 200s anymore? A drop in the bucket as to who's loosing them. Pinnacle, Expressjet, and Skywest, along with Chautauqua will loose them. My guess is that as Pinnacle and Expressjet operate the largest quantity, they have the most to loose...
 

Flyer1015

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Doesn't Comair only operate 16 CRJ 200s anymore? A drop in the bucket as to who's loosing them. Pinnacle, Expressjet, and Skywest, along with Chautauqua will loose them. My guess is that as Pinnacle and Expressjet operate the largest quantity, they have the most to loose...
A girlfriend can be loose, but airplanes you lose. Hope that clarifies it! ;)
 

Freebrd

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using "loose" improperly on fltinfo is good :D
 

doh

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I wasn't in upper management but was high enough in the food chain to know how much misinformation the MEC was feeding the pilots.

In October of 2003, Delta came to Comair first with the opportunity to fly more 70 seat aircraft and the company asked the pilots to open up the contract. The union told Comair to pound sand.

Delta gave you guys the opportunity to be competitive FIRST. This was indeed a union issue. Had the contract been reopened in 2003, the 50 seat issue would not have been there during the following years. Comair would have been competitive with the rest of the regionals and there is a good chance that it would have at least been a viable asset that could have been sold as ASA, Compass and Mesaba were.

Instead, they had the 50 seaters and a union nobody wanted any part of. In the end it was indeed the cost structure, but the foundation had crumbled due to the actions of JC and Corey.
We're you high enough up the food chain to see the constant abuse? No...wait...you were high enough up the food chain to ignore the constant abuse we put up with. You made a comment about the "culture". I notice you had no response when I pointed out the verbal abuse I got from Mikey P. Some "cult"ure.:puke:
 

imacdog

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welcome to club, Eastern, Braniff I, TransAmerican, Zantop, Pam Am, Drummond Island Air, GM Corp, USSteel, the list goes on. All airline jobs are temporary, well not exactly true I do know 2 guys who had complete careers with no lay offs or pay cuts.
Must be all part of the 2012 hiring boom, right YIPster?
 

imacdog

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Comair could easily have sustained profitability within the Delta family and have continued to have been the model for all others but was shackled by the greed of the union.
Yeah, if only all those stupid pilots would work for food stamp wages and not just some of them, imagine what we could accomplish! Do you realize how much of a tool you are showing yourself to be?
 

Nevets

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I wasn't in upper management but was high enough in the food chain to know how much misinformation the MEC was feeding the pilots.

In October of 2003, Delta came to Comair first with the opportunity to fly more 70 seat aircraft and the company asked the pilots to open up the contract. The union told Comair to pound sand.

Delta gave you guys the opportunity to be competitive FIRST. This was indeed a union issue. Had the contract been reopened in 2003, the 50 seat issue would not have been there during the following years. Comair would have been competitive with the rest of the regionals and there is a good chance that it would have at least been a viable asset that could have been sold as ASA, Compass and Mesaba were.

Instead, they had the 50 seaters and a union nobody wanted any part of. In the end it was indeed the cost structure, but the foundation had crumbled due to the actions of JC and Corey.
Did management open up their contracts to become competitive FIRST and lead by example? This was indeed a management leadership issue.
 

SiuDude

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In happier news, GoJet should be hiring street captains soon, really soon. :puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:
 

Max Q

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Perhaps if airline management, since the beginning of time, didn't foster a culture of abuse towards its employees, we wouldn't need contracts or unions.
 
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