• Shop the NC Software Memorial Day Sale Event now through Monday May 27th midnight eastern (UTC-4) and take 15% off your order by applying coupon code MD19 at checkout. Visit nc-software.com to shop now. Renew subscriptions at any time as they will auto add based on your current expiration.
  • APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 9.1 is now available on the Apple App Store. Click here for details of what's new in this release. Major new features include Default Rest Facility, ATC Flight Planned Routes and Notifications of route changes, EDCT Status Board Widget, and more...

The end of Comair

General Lee

Well-known member
Unbelievable. JC and Cory had the balls to stand up and try to make the regionals a place worthy of a career, and you heap derision on them? I certainly don't agree with everything that JC did or said, but he was a good man and a good trade unionist, and he should be thanked for his many years of hard work. The same goes for Cory.

My sympathies for everyone at Comair. You guys ran a great airline, stood up for this profession repeatedly, and you should be proud of the airline that you helped build, even though Delta may be tearing it down now. You'll all be in my prayers.
No, JC made a big mistake with his memo to his pilots at the start of the DL furloughs. He could have gone the ASA route and offered help, but he chose to ask for the Moon. Good luck to the good ones at Comair.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:

JonnyKnoxville

Well-known member
As much as we all like to think that the world revolves around pilots, it simply does not. The decision to shut down Comair was made by people in ATL who look at the cost and profitability in an operation. The only pilots that they might know would be the ones flying their corporate jets. These people have never heard of JC or Corey and they don't care about any memos regarding Delta furloughs.

Comair has always been on the leading edge of the regional industry and this case is no different. Colgan is closing, Pinnacle and Eagle are going to be destroyed and it won't have anything to do with the pilots. It is economics, plain and simple; and the disparity in pilot costs between competitors is meaningless to even discuss.

BTW, Bugsmasher Plus, make sure you never apply to my airline. I never want to count on someone like you to help improve my quality of life or compensation. You would do just fine at a non-union airline where management can show you how worthless they really think you are.
 

staylow

Another Hasbeen-Neverwas
To all my fellow Comair employees...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me, Shall be my brother...godspeed and best of luck. It has been an honor.
 

pilotyip

Well-known member
welcome to club, Eastern, Braniff I, TransAmerican, Zantop, Pam Am, Drummond Island Air, GM Corp, USSteel, the list goes on. All airline jobs are temporary, well not exactly true I do know 2 guys who had complete careers with no lay offs or pay cuts.
 

Bugsmasher Plus

Armchair Quarterback
As much as we all like to think that the world revolves around pilots, it simply does not. The decision to shut down Comair was made by people in ATL who look at the cost and profitability in an operation. The only pilots that they might know would be the ones flying their corporate jets. These people have never heard of JC or Corey and they don't care about any memos regarding Delta furloughs.

Comair has always been on the leading edge of the regional industry and this case is no different. Colgan is closing, Pinnacle and Eagle are going to be destroyed and it won't have anything to do with the pilots. It is economics, plain and simple; and the disparity in pilot costs between competitors is meaningless to even discuss.

BTW, Bugsmasher Plus, make sure you never apply to my airline. I never want to count on someone like you to help improve my quality of life or compensation. You would do just fine at a non-union airline where management can show you how worthless they really think you are.
You are right, the decision was made by those in ATL. The strike brought with it a lot of unintended consequences that changed the face of regional arilines and with it the competitive structure that once made Comair the envy of the industry.

Hub protection (Comair - CVG, ASA-ATL etc) vanished with the strike. You don't think that affected profitability? Scope clauses that limited growth and a union that over and over again proved that it was not capable of working with the company to stay competitive.

The most important thing that was lost at Comair after the strike was the culture and with it was the bottom line. The company was never again competitive and chosen to lead the industry. Comair over and over again did things with the RJ that nobody else could prior to the strike. All that vanished.

To address your last statement... myself, like most Comair management made the decision to move on many years ago. We were all committed to making the best decisions possible for the pilot group, the non pilot employees and the company as a whole. The culture that was learned stayed within all of us and the desire to support and succeed to the best of our ability never changed. I don't know where you but I can assure you that one of us is probably on the management team with oversight of a function that improves your quality of life every day.

Don't misunderstand me, I was there when all of this happened and watched it all unfold. I felt the sting of the strike, saw the culture change and suffered the consequences after. My heart goes out to all those affected, many of them good friends that I still stay in touch with, along with many of them I still work beside today. All Comair employees, past and present feel heartache at the closure of the company. It is like losing a close friend.

However, for every failure there is a turning point where you know that it all could have been avoided. JC and Corey made decisions that destroyed what Ray and his father started. What could have been is over now, where the sky was once the limit it is soon to be nothing but a footnote in history.

The airline that introduced the regional jet to the industry, that forever changed the image of what a small commuter airplane was (no props), that was able to operate from coast to coast as an airline, operate to locations and distance previously unheard of as a commuter with a culture second to none is soon to be no more.

As one who lived it, the two names most associated with the demise of the greatest regional airline ever will be JC and Corey.
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
No, JC made a big mistake with his memo to his pilots at the start of the DL furloughs. He could have gone the ASA route and offered help, but he chose to ask for the Moon. Good luck to the good ones at Comair.
Like I said, I don't agree with everything he said or did. Maybe you don't remember, but I was an outspoken opponent to how he handled the DAL furloughee situation. But everyone makes mistakes. I don't condemn a man for one poor decision, even if it was a really poor decision.
 

Bugsmasher Plus

Armchair Quarterback
Ahhh, you're management. That explains a lot. :rolleyes:
Yes, I was and am management elsewhere today. What it explains is that I saw first hand the reality and wasn't fed the crap the pilots were during the negotiations leading up to the strike. It's why I know the strike didn't have to happen and that the pilots didn't get anything after the 89 days that they couldn't have before it began. The turning point was the strike.

I started out at Comair as a rank and file employee that was promoted into management. I was in a position where all that happened was visible to myself and those around me. It was like watching a train coming and knowing there was no possible way to step out of the way. The MEC made the decision to strike long before it happened. Even on the final days in March it could have been avoided, yet the union chose to boycott the negotiations. Seibs had a blank check to close the deal, but it was hard to negotiate when they were the only ones in the room. Maggie couldn't even drag them back in.

It's all history now and the true story will never be made public. The media will state that Comair was operating the 50 seats airplane and costs were too high and it wasn't sustainable.

They will never write about the history leading to why larger airplanes didn't make it onto the property and the lack of commitment by the JC, Cory and the union to negotiate in good faith.

Comair could easily have sustained profitability within the Delta family and have continued to have been the model for all others but was shackled by the greed of the union.

It's over now and all Comair employees, past and present, grieve over a premature death and the loss of what should have been.
 

doh

Jump seat shrink
You are right, the decision was made by those in ATL. The strike brought with it a lot of unintended consequences that changed the face of regional arilines and with it the competitive structure that once made Comair the envy of the industry.

Hub protection (Comair - CVG, ASA-ATL etc) vanished with the strike. You don't think that affected profitability? Scope clauses that limited growth and a union that over and over again proved that it was not capable of working with the company to stay competitive.

The most important thing that was lost at Comair after the strike was the culture and with it was the bottom line. The company was never again competitive and chosen to lead the industry. Comair over and over again did things with the RJ that nobody else could prior to the strike. All that vanished.

To address your last statement... myself, like most Comair management made the decision to move on many years ago. We were all committed to making the best decisions possible for the pilot group, the non pilot employees and the company as a whole. The culture that was learned stayed within all of us and the desire to support and succeed to the best of our ability never changed. I don't know where you but I can assure you that one of us is probably on the management team with oversight of a function that improves your quality of life every day.

Don't misunderstand me, I was there when all of this happened and watched it all unfold. I felt the sting of the strike, saw the culture change and suffered the consequences after. My heart goes out to all those affected, many of them good friends that I still stay in touch with, along with many of them I still work beside today. All Comair employees, past and present feel heartache at the closure of the company. It is like losing a close friend.

However, for every failure there is a turning point where you know that it all could have been avoided. JC and Corey made decisions that destroyed what Ray and his father started. What could have been is over now, where the sky was once the limit it is soon to be nothing but a footnote in history.

The airline that introduced the regional jet to the industry, that forever changed the image of what a small commuter airplane was (no props), that was able to operate from coast to coast as an airline, operate to locations and distance previously unheard of as a commuter with a culture second to none is soon to be no more.

As one who lived it, the two names most associated with the demise of the greatest regional airline ever will be JC and Corey.

The culture!?! Are you F'n crazy!?! The culture prestrike was the most abusive culture I have ever worked in! As a new hire sitting in the van back to the hangar I was approached by a stranger. He started with "you no how you can tell a pilot is lying? His lips are moving". Now I'd never laid eyes on this a-hole before. He doesn't know me or what I think. But he chose to make that his first impression. It was MP, Director of Ops at the time. When I found that out, I knew we would HAVE TO STRIKE! You can't work with someone who is instinctively abusive like that! So spare me your lying BS about culture. I was a victim of your culture too many times.:puke:
 

doh

Jump seat shrink
Yes, I was and am management elsewhere today. What it explains is that I saw first hand the reality and wasn't fed the crap the pilots were during the negotiations leading up to the strike. It's why I know the strike didn't have to happen and that the pilots didn't get anything after the 89 days that they couldn't have before it began. The turning point was the strike.

I started out at Comair as a rank and file employee that was promoted into management. I was in a position where all that happened was visible to myself and those around me. It was like watching a train coming and knowing there was no possible way to step out of the way. The MEC made the decision to strike long before it happened. Even on the final days in March it could have been avoided, yet the union chose to boycott the negotiations. Seibs had a blank check to close the deal, but it was hard to negotiate when they were the only ones in the room. Maggie couldn't even drag them back in.

It's all history now and the true story will never be made public. The media will state that Comair was operating the 50 seats airplane and costs were too high and it wasn't sustainable.

They will never write about the history leading to why larger airplanes didn't make it onto the property and the lack of commitment by the JC, Cory and the union to negotiate in good faith.

Comair could easily have sustained profitability within the Delta family and have continued to have been the model for all others but was shackled by the greed of the union.

It's over now and all Comair employees, past and present, grieve over a premature death and the loss of what should have been.

Blank check my ***! If management had come to the table with any good faith whatsoever, we could have had a contract in less than six months. Instead, Satanbergen negotiated in absolute bad faith. So two and a half years later we still had the abusive culture in place.
 

Bugsmasher Plus

Armchair Quarterback
Blank check my ***! If management had come to the table with any good faith whatsoever, we could have had a contract in less than six months. Instead, Satanbergen negotiated in absolute bad faith. So two and a half years later we still had the abusive culture in place.
I think you forgot the Seibs left Comair after the DAL buyout. He wasn't there for the 2 years before the strike, he had oversight of DL Connection. That's why he was sent in at the end to close the deal. As I said, the final day before the strike, Siebs had a blank check to close the deal. The union negotiators never came to the table. They were dragged out of their room by the arbitrator, was there for 15 minutes and left. There was nothing achieved after 89 days that couldn't have been agreed upon the day before. Comair came a lot closer to ending it's existance the first time that summer, and only when it became apparent they were serious was the contract ratified.

All this is ancient history, but it is what began what is happening now.
 

WSurf

The Smack Down!
Crazy to think Delta spent 1.8 Billion to buy Comair only 12 years ago. And now its gonna shut down. Amazing!!
 

jetflier

Well-known member
Crazy to think Delta spent 1.8 Billion to buy Comair only 12 years ago. And now its gonna shut down. Amazing!!

You would think that Delta made a big financial mistake, however, the 1.8 B investment in the asset (Comair) will probably taken as a loss. Delta could write down that 1.8B at a time when record making profits are occurring.
 

wmuflyguy

flunky
You would think that Delta made a big financial mistake, however, the 1.8 B investment in the asset (Comair) will probably taken as a loss. Delta could write down that 1.8B at a time when record making profits are occurring.
I think they wrote it off a while back. I'd have to look at the 10k filings but I'm pretty sure they did it already
 

Holy Shiite

Well-known member
I think you forgot the Seibs left Comair after the DAL buyout. He wasn't there for the 2 years before the strike, he had oversight of DL Connection. That's why he was sent in at the end to close the deal. As I said, the final day before the strike, Siebs had a blank check to close the deal. The union negotiators never came to the table. They were dragged out of their room by the arbitrator, was there for 15 minutes and left. There was nothing achieved after 89 days that couldn't have been agreed upon the day before. Comair came a lot closer to ending it's existance the first time that summer, and only when it became apparent they were serious was the contract ratified.

All this is ancient history, but it is what began what is happening now.
The comair boys promised Delta they would get them ( comair pilots) inline and get a contract rammed down their throats. I remember chuck Curran screaming at us at the picket line in MCO saying how we are taking food away from families, etc. I have never in my life seen anybody more stressed out and the reason was, he was going to lose his job which is exactly what happened. He was gone in short order. Comair management at the time of the strike was the primary reason for the strike. If you treat people like garbage that is the result and Comair certainly deserved to be struck at that time. To try and put the blame for the strike on the MEC/ Pilots is pure fantasy. Unfortunately, trying to raise the bar at a regional will probably never happen. ALPA has bought off on that idea so the non-union regionals are probably in the best position for the future. HS
 
Top