SWAPA "AIP reached with Company"

XRMEFLYER

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"Even discounting the former AT folk"

....You don't seriously think that 1600 guys who were on the verge of striking just a few short years ago would accept any erosion of codeshare protections to pay for a COLA raise do you?
 

SWA Bubba

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"Even discounting the former AT folk"

....You don't seriously think that 1600 guys who were on the verge of striking just a few short years ago would accept any erosion of codeshare protections to pay for a COLA raise do you?
I suspect he's talking about that few, still-disgruntled subset of FAT pilots who continually claim on this board that they'll, "vote yes for any subpar contract that is put before them," presumidly as a slam to, or "punishment" for, OSW pilots, whom they hold responsible for their continued pissed-off-ness. Don't worry--in reality, most of us assume that in actuality, FATs will be just as critical about the particulars of a TA as OSWs are.

Bubba
 

XRMEFLYER

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That's a fairly safe assumption.

Hopefully they will surprise us and bring us a clean TA with none of those things that seem to have the 13 guys on the swapa forum all up in arms.
 

Flycatcher99

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I'm sorry, I think my syntax got mangled. I meant that even if you take away 1700 guys who are definitely willing to vote no, even the remnant (the OSW folk) are much farther from collectively voting anything through.
 

Tripower455

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Don't worry--in reality, most of us assume that in actuality, FATs will be just as critical about the particulars of a TA as OSWs are.
That's a frightening thought.

Some critical evaluation before voting YES! on more concessions would be a nice change of pace around here. ;) I was hoping that the FAT folks would tip the scales since we're historically unable or unwilling to do it.
 
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humveedriver

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Humvee, our duty day rules are already less restricting than the FARs. They couldn't get any worse.
I was talking about why the FA contract failed. Please take time to read our TA and focus on what the company will likely do with changes they are making. Especially if you elect to fly the NG/Max/ETOPs intl'l stuff. There will be more than just LAS to DAL red eyes coming. The rented mules will be seeing considerably more night flying. Same FAR's, but days to night. Night to days.
 

General Lee

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Sounds like too many givebacks during higher profits. That's the same case at DL. Your "FAT" pilots will vote NO because they have waited a long time for winning the "goldmine", and they don't want to give that up. The pilots that you will have to worry about are the senior pilots who think the new rules won't affect them, maybe the top 30% Captains in each base. They only see the pay raises. They already fly the trips they want (AM or PM), and redeye trips won't be in their bids.

The JV or codeshare additions, aren't good. They have taken away a lot of flying from the Big 3. Gone, forever, to cheaper overseas airlines that now fly bigger planes than we do. Same goes with domestic code shares or RJs, although dwindling newhire positions and impending pilot shortages at the Regionals, along with pilot shortages due to huge upcoming retirement numbers at the Big 3 have helped that problem.


Good luck, if you don't like the TA, vote it down and move on. Don't give away too much during great times.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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fletch717

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I'm not voting yes to punish anyone, I need the FO pay raise.
 

Luv2BFlyin

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Whatever raise you think you'll get is gonna get pi$$ed away in the fine print, just like last time.
Yeah, we were all told that we were getting a raise, not so much. We were told that by SWAPA and mgmt, the irony is sickening.
 

Tripower455

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Yeah, we were all told that we were getting a raise, not so much. We were told that by SWAPA and mgmt, the irony is sickening.
Yup...

And the usual Kool Aid stirrers are already on the SNApA forum touting the "benefits" of codeshare to the masses.

You can't make this stuff up........
 

Kharma Police

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Yeah, we were all told that we were getting a raise, not so much. We were told that by SWAPA and mgmt, the irony is sickening.
I've mentioned it several times, Management and SWAPA are the same thing.
 

Phlintstone

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I'm not voting yes to punish anyone, I need the FO pay raise.
With the proposed scope changes, you'll be an FO for a long, long time. Moving over to the left seat sooner is the better long term plan. Subsets, PBS, and other issues will kill QOL while waiting on the upgrade. It sucks in sooooo many ways. I am a HUGE NO vote on scope alone.

phred
 

freightdogfred

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With the proposed scope changes, you'll be an FO for a long, long time. Moving over to the left seat sooner is the better long term plan. Subsets, PBS, and other issues will kill QOL while waiting on the upgrade. It sucks in sooooo many ways. I am a HUGE NO vote on scope alone.

phred
What's the diff... You make more as a SW FO than as a FL capt, right?
Plus the first deal is always the best. These two facts were the mantra on this board during the integration, what has changed? I don't want my "cheese" to be moved again.
 

Kharma Police

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What's the diff... You make more as a SW FO than as a FL capt, right?
Plus the first deal is always the best. These two facts were the mantra on this board during the integration, what has changed? I don't want my "cheese" to be moved again.
I find it extremely funny that SWAPA sat in the corner while Gary and the gang negotiated the seniority integration. Now, the company has crafted a deal that I'm sure SWAPA again had no say in writing and the RSWs are up in arms. Maybe they should do another "march on the HQ"?
 

Tripower455

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I find it extremely funny that SWAPA sat in the corner while Gary and the gang negotiated the seniority integration. Now, the company has crafted a deal that I'm sure SWAPA again had no say in writing and the RSWs are up in arms. Maybe they should do another "march on the HQ"?
I've been telling you guys for years that this is SOP for SWApA. The company dictates, and SWApA does.

Same as it ever was.

Wait until the "road shows". You'll learn just how badly we schooled GK at the "negotiating" table and won't be able to vote YES! fast enough!
 

HowardBorden

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Wait until the "road shows". You'll learn just how badly we schooled GK at the "negotiating" table and won't be able to vote YES! fast enough!
Absolutely disagree about the yes vote. This TA will fail in my opinion. Even on the SWAPA forum there is zero support for this. This deal has garnered WAY more negativity than the last TA that was scrapped. It may not be the resounding NO that the F.A.'s put together, but I still believe it will not pass.
 
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