Southwest, another question..

Timebuilder

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A thread on Airnet here on the board mentions flying the Caravan, and the desire of most of the Airnet pilots to fly twins in order to build multi time. Here's the question: after you build the required multi time, would a year spent flying the Caravan (PIC) fulfill the required 1,000 pic turbine, or is it "understood" that this requirement means multi turbine for purposes of the Southwest hiring process?
 

MLBWINGBORN

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The stated SWA requirments are as follows..

ATP..First class medical

2500 total time or 1500 hours turbine..

Min of 1000 hours PIC in a turbine aircraft..

They hire alot of F-16 drivers and very few of them have any multi time..

They do NOT state anything about required multi time..

If you meet this mins you WILL be called for an interview..

MLBWINGBORN
 

oriondriver

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The fact is, a majority of SWA pilots are ex-military and they realize that military training is better than the average civilian training. The average military pilot does emergency procedures simulators every three months while civ pilots do recurrent training annually. Let's face it, airline pilots are hired for one reason and one reason only: To take care of bidness when the sh#$% hits the fan. If you were in charge of hiring who would you want in that situation, someone who has been on the pointy end of the spear or someone who has been padding their logbook with Cessna 152 time?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Questions?

Din't thank so!

Peace Out
 

StarrBuck

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You have to be kidding!

Hope you are better at "pointing your spear" than you are at spelling!
 

AlbieF15

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Starrbuck,

Don't get mad at the previous poster. There are tons of military guys who are great guys, but a few out there as you mentioned have chips on their shoulders. These guys are usually the ones who walk in to their pilot training bases with "Fly fighters" or some other rah rah stuff on their cars, then leave a year later only to spend the next 3 years raising the gear for a captain on their P-3 or other multi-place aircraft. Once they get an airline job they think they can bully their civilian counterparts and scoff at the guys who remain on active duty. Any military pilot who openly picks a fight with a civilian on these boards is likely venting frustration at their own career disillusionments.

As for me...I fly fighters...but I"ve never seen a glass cockpit. I don't routinely fly into JFK, LAX, or other nightmare arrivals. I don't know jack about deice procedures (except what I memorized for my FEX written) BlueDev8tor met me last week and showed me a buddy's 99 Piper Archer. He showed me the "gucci" autopilot, and explained that it was virutally identical to the one in his CRJ and that I would see it in a JetBlue A320. However...his jaw dropped when I told him I've NEVER flown an airplane with an autopilot (except the altitude hold feature on an eagle...it won't shoot an approach, or control airspeed, or anything....just will hold level flight as long as your airspeed doesn't bleed off). My point is everyone brings something to the fight, and ignore these morons. Trust me...if I'm in indoc training I am going to be picking the brain of the CRJ or regional pilot for systems gouge, not a P-3 guy.

On the other hand...those b@#tards do have one more air to air kill than I do...so I guess I've got to give them some respect! :D

Fly safe and play nice.
 
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InHot

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Well said, not bad for a zoomie, and a fighter puke to boot!
 

b747dogg

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First of all, oriondriver needs to get a clue and maybe he should save his comments until he gets a little experience in the real world. the military and the civilian world has the good and the bad. lets see who i want to fly with, someone who has flown a 1000 hours a year shooting 5 approaches a day, or someone who has flown 100 hours a year shooting 5 approaches a year. also, the only thing i have padded is my wallet. im not knocking any military or civilian guys, just oniondriver. have fun. wish you all luck.
 

Michael Knight

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Ignore Orion's comments. MLB gave you the mins- All you need is the 1000 PIC in whatever.

Good luck,
Mike
 

Jakeair

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Just a fact for everyone to ponder.

Oriondriver is somewhat incorrect about SWA. I was in the Aug.3 class (class # 01-16) and out of twenty pilots, only seven had military time. However, all the military pilots had some civ. time.

If Oriondriver goes into the SWA interview with the above attitude, I don't think he will have a career with Southwest Airlines.

Take care all

Jakeair
 

N1atMax

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Lets see, last time I checked i was going to the sim once every 6 months. Lets not forget the old 299 ride thrown in there. So what Orion is showing us is that he knows nothing about the civilian world other than the fact that we all padded our logbooks in our 152's. And yes he probably is better at emergencies than most of us. Airplanes that old usually do have a lot more problems than the newer state of the art stuff that most of us are flying. Personally I have never flown a plane that was built in the 1950s or 60s.

Spin them props orion boy, and go chase a sub. lol
 

jball2

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I am in no way trying to fuel this fire but I would like to state my viewpoint. I am 100% civilian and cannot speak for the training in the military. I could not go to the military because my vision was not good enough. It is my firm belief that whether you trained in the military or as a civilian is of no significance. As a check airman at my present company I have been blessed with the opportunuty to fly with pilots from both sides of the fence. Neither has proven to be better in any given situation based on their previous training. In this business you either HAVE IT or YOU DON'T.
Common sense and good judgement are not just taught. They are things that we acquire from our experiences and, to a point, are inherent in our personalities.
 

qxeplt

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He's in already

Oriondriver is already hired at SWA check out the SWA pool list at the top...
 

Timebuilder

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I can't argue with the value of PIC turbine, I just see a long road getting it.

I can't fault the military guys for their turbine time, either. Truth is, I'd have it myself if I hadn't taken some advice from guys returning from 'Nam in '69. I could have taken an offer for an appointment to any of the academies when I left VFMA in 1970, not because I was so special but because those appointments were going wanting, and I was advised that we weren't being allowed to "take care of business" because politics were ruling the outcome of the war. I trusted their judgement, since they had been there.

So, if I find a way, I'll get to Southwest. If not, I'll fly somewhere else, and think back to the day when General Westmoreland inspected my room during a GI. He said that we were every bit as sharp as his cadets back at USMA. You guys who fly military style do have my respect, even if I don't have yours.
 

falcon20

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Oriondriver,
Youre attitude towards this thread would put a bad taste in anyones mouth. Do you think that civilian pilots never have an emergency? And why do the airlines only train once a year if you think that youre method is much safer. One thing that i will say to you is that you are in for a real eye opener if you think that youre" greatness" is the common denominator of all military pilots. I have flown with both great civ and mil types and would never say that one background is better than the other, but that their experiences are different. I hope your attitude changes when you begin flying for SWA or else your name will be one of those that floats around the pilot lounge.
Stay off of CNN
 

bogieboy

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Just for fun (and to play Devil's advocate), I will jump in and (partially) defend Oriondriver.

Fact: If you have a military background and you have the required minimums, you have approximately an 85% or better chance of getting hired by a Major airline. Of the available civ-only pilots with the required minimums, only about 25% ever get picked up by a Major airline.

Fact: The average total time for a civ-only pilot hired at a major airline is approximately twice as much as their military counterparts.

I think those two statistics pretty much speak for themselves and would seem to at least partially vindicate Orion-drivers viewpoint, however much of a jerk he is for actually saying it in such an offensive manner.

There are plenty of fine civilian pilots out there, but I think the real reason that the "average" military pilot swims better in the hiring pool than the "average" civilian pilot is that military pilots are a known quantity having gone through a much more structured training and operational environment. Doesn't necessarily make them better, just makes it easier to know their background.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

KrJoDrAlTr
 

jball2

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One more thing to add. I think the major reason more Mil. Pilots get hired anywhere has to do with there intense network they have going. This is not meant offensively at all but when military pilots are doing the hiring more military pilots will be hired because they are hiring a "buddy," so to speak. Civilians would do the exact same thing.

Just an observation.
 

jetexas

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I flew the Caravan for a year. I got some really good experience and had a blast flying it. If you are gonna go to a Part 135 and fly the 'van', my advice is to stick around there until you get the 1000 PIC turbine. If you leave before, you may not get a shot at that Turbine PIC for a long time!
 

V1Cutt

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Oriondriver

I laugh at someone who thinks the front end of a P-3 is "the pointy end of a spear"
You're in for a rude awakening in class my friend, we had a P-3 guy in my class who had a GREAT attitude, yet he struggled. It was his humble attitude that got him through.
You're gonna wish you had civilian training when everyone else is at happy hour relaxing.
There is no difference in the flying ability of military -vs- civilian, it's in the attitudes of the military types, which quickly dissappear when the real world hits them in the face. It's fun to watch.
99% of the military guys I know are great - it's guys like you that give the whole group a bad name sometimes.
You've got a lot to learn my friend, mark my words.
 

loungelizard

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I'm not here to defend Oriondriver. He is a jerk and a loser. P-3 pilots are the bottom of the food chain in Naval Aviation anyway. I will relate my own experiences however. Over the past 18 months in my squadron we have had 6 pilots leave active duty and all have been hired by major airlines. Not one of these pilots had over 3000 hours. Of course 3 of them are on furlough now but that's a different story. I myself have been hired by SWA with barely 2500 total and 1050 PIC (I guess, even though I still have no idea when my class will be). What's the moral of this story. Heck I don't know. My gut feeling is that when the majors are hiring they hire as many military pilots as they can and then use the rest of their slots to hire civilian pilots.
My two cents worth. :p :p :p :p :p




ShTiZaAs
 
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xhercdriver

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I honestly believe that if Southwest calls you for an interview, they already consider you "good enough" to work for them.

Once you're at the interview, it's really "luck of the draw" who you're up against, and what percentage of folks considered by your decision board they can hire. If you "do well" at the interview, I think that will be a lot more important than how many engines your plane has or how many times you went to the simulator each year. My interview team had one ex-military, one non-military, and one People Dept person, and I strongly suspect they all had an "equal" input to my final "grade" for the interview.

So I'd say your best bet is to make sure you "qualify" for the interview, as expeditiously as possible, and then make sure you're prepared for the interview itself. The rest is really out of your control. You could show up with 3000 hours multi-jet time and find out that everyone else in your group is a furloughed 737 pilot. A superior interview performance is going to "blur" any equipment disadvantage you may feel you have.

They wouldn't call you if they weren't interested in you, and they'd skip the interview if they only cared about what kind of planes you flew...
 
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