Slowing Down

GOBUFFS

Beat Nebraska!!!
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Nov 26, 2001
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I am flying freight (B58) for a company out of LUK to CLE. CLE controllers always want 170kts to the marker. This exceeds all limitations for gear flaps, etc. I have been been slowing down by High rpm, Low Man. Pressure (Idle). But am concerned that if I continue this practice I am going to cause damage(or atleast excessive wear). I'd like to get this figured out before the real Wx hits.
Pardon for a juvenile question, I am still alittle wet beind the ears!
Thanks in Advance,
Fly Safe
Colorado
 

BE1900DATP

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Nov 25, 2001
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To my knowledge (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) the squared method of power setting ie, RPM's higher MP came from the older radial supercharged engines...

As far as slowing down most pistions slow rather well... just pull the power to slightly above idle, push the props up a couple hundred RPM, and let nature take over....

Another technique that I have heard of is to actually descend about one half to a full dot below the glide before the marker and actually climb back up re-intercept with the power at idle.. I do not reccomed this procedure

I can't remember the speeds for the baron, but I'm pretty sure that the 55 I used to fly had a lower extension speed then the actual operating speed for the gear... If that's the case slow, drop the gear and then accelerlate...

And finally probably the best method is to tell ATC unable. Givethem your best forward speed and hold it.... Most airplanes fly their approaches a lot slower (or at least can) then 170. ATC is not going to bounce you out of their airspace if you are too slow...


Hope this helps....

and if I'm full of it, please tell me so I can have a have a window installed around the belly button for improved visiblity with my head up and locked
 
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I flew an A36 Bonanza for about 350 hours and I would always get 170 to the marker also. What I would do was set it up to get to 20" and 2500 RPM at the marker with a power reduction of 1" per minute starting out at 25" so it took about 75 minutes of planning before you get to the marker. You have to be in a decent the whole time before you get to the marker though otherwise you will not be able to keep the 170kts. When I would hit the marker I would level out until I got to 154 the 12.5" flap and gear speed then put the first notch of flaps in and bring the power back to 18" and that would keep me at 150 on the approach until I got to about 1 mile final then dump the gear and then it slows down fast when you get the gear down and bring power back slowly and get to final flap speed on about 1/4 mile final. I never had a problem getting that airplane slowed down if I had the first notch of flaps in before I started down after the marker, but if you wait you will never get it slowed down without hurting the engines. I am not sure what engines you have in your Barron, but if you have the IO-550's they don't like the power to be pulled back to fast since the cylinders run hot and you will shock cool them and do damage, but if you have the IO-520's they can handle a little more then the 550's. Hope this helps you out some and if you have any more questions just let me know.
 

browntail

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Well dude, I would assume that you are flying for Airnet Systems. When I was there, I would get the same request at many of the airports that I flew into. I can tell you this, most of the guys treated the throttles like toggle switches. They were either full throttle or they were slowly retarted to slow down. I flew 1000 hrs in a Baron using this method and never had any engine problems. Would I do it this way if it was my airplane, NO! On the other hand they aren't over paying you to be in the airplane, so give ATC the speed and get home early!!!!!!

Don't sweat it, just avoid the darn wake turbulence. Now that will kill ya!!!!
 

snowback

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Sometimes the best way is to say "unable 170 to the marker". If they pull you out of sequence, it's another 3/10s in your logbook. We all understand that we need to work with ATC, but they aren't flying your airplane. If you give them a little heads-up, they will almost always be able to work you into the fray.
 

rattler

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Depending on what time you go into CLE, (assuming its at night) it's probably not that busy. Ask to slow down and give them what you comfortable can. If you tell them what speed you can do and you talk to them 4 nights a week when its not buisy, they will remember you and always ask you for that speed. When I flew checks I did it in a C208, the SYR controllers always asked if I was able 120 on final due to a Dash 8 that arrived like clockwork ahead of me. I told him I could give him between 70-160 to the numbers, after that I always was first, but asked to do 160 to the numbers.
Another thought, with the winter rapidly approaching expect the RJs decent speeds to be 10-20knts faster, due to the anti-icing system automatically increases engine thrust output to provide extra bleed air at idle to heat the wings. Point being CLE may ask you to go faster, probably not faster than 170 at FORRD (marker), but expect 190 in the decent and while vectored for the approach.
 
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