Sawing the MD80 yoke!

RS6

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Messages
51
Total Time
5000
typhoonpilot said:
The 80 can be a handful when it is gusty but that looked like bad technique, the guy was over-controlling. The sound at the end sounded like a radio altimeter was set for 0.


TP
RA, that's right.

Yeah, from 50' down, he was a bit wicked on the fore/aft movement of the control wheel.
 

Big Duke Six

Not-too-Junior
Joined
Feb 12, 2003
Messages
544
Total Time
7000+
Poor technique

I used to fly with a guy who was WAY worse than that. Even on a relatively calm day, you'd have to keep your hands well clear of the yoke when he was flying. He was a maniac on the controls, but he was very experienced. I always felt it was poor technique, and I think he thought I was lazy or laid-back on my landings because I just used minute adjustments to get what I wanted. I'm serious, this guy burned some calories below 50 feet AGL, and he was a check airman. I never could figure out why he did it that way.
 

Singlecoil

I don't reMember
Joined
Jul 26, 2002
Messages
1,273
Total Time
8760
It also looked like he cracked the reversers before the nose was down. That's a very good way to scrape the clamshells on the runway in that airplane.
 

AA717driver

A simpler time...
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
4,911
Total Time
+/-13k
There are quite a few people out there who jack the yoke on short final. The control responses in the -80 are so slow that you are just cancelling out all the inputs. I've seen it done in the GV (way too responsive for that kind of behavior!) and you could REALLY feel it. I always try to see how little input I can make all the way down.

It's just a bad habit--I remember almost getting into that habit myself. Some TWA Captain b!t@h-slapped me and I never looked back. :D

I always found the -80 was very stable on approach--you just had to realize it had pretty slow control response and needs a BUNCH of rudder to kick the nose straight in a cross wind. JMO.TC
 

FL000

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
1,577
Total Time
1500
Sawing the yoke? I've always called that "screwing the moose."
 

EagleRJ

Are we there yet?
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Messages
1,490
Total Time
5800
I think pilots carry that over from other aircraft that have a lot of "stiction" in the elevator cable runs. Some planes have high breakout forces, so getting wild in the flare keeps you "in the loop".

It is still bad form.
 

profile

Shem Malmquist
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
279
Total Time
12,000
Actually, that type of pilot control is well known in the flight test/certification world. A pilot that does that would be classified as a "high gain" pilot, tending to be reactionary, rather than anticipatory in their control inputs. A pilot that is "high gain" has a much higher probability of encountering what is now known as "APC", but more commonly referred to as PIO.
 

Crossky

A Gentleman and a bother
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
Messages
406
Total Time
7700
Looked ok to me, like he had a crosswind on approach though. I guess the guy was overcontrolling you could say, but it looked like he got the response from the plane that he wanted. Move the control wheel a lot and back off, or move it less and wait. This is an original fly by wire plane you know, 1/8 inch cable. No hydraulics (except for stall pusher and rudder for engine failure) and the cables move control tabs, not the surfaces. I only flew it (it flew me rather) for 60 hrs but the feel in pitch was spongey and springy, in roll it was similar but the rate increased quickly once the spoilerons deployed. The -80 used to input roll and pitch like that with the AP flying an approach. That's about when I would say george has had enough and disconnect.
 

4fanman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Messages
203
Total Time
n/a
When I was at Mesaba I noticed that a lot of the new Avro captains that had just transitioned from the Saab did the same thing.
 

Big Duke Six

Not-too-Junior
Joined
Feb 12, 2003
Messages
544
Total Time
7000+
You could be right about the necessity to fly this way in the -80 with no hydraulics, but when I encountered this phenomenon we were flying 737's (200's). I think it was just a bad habit for this guy, because come to think of it, he had come out of C-130's and I'm sure the 130 is quite the beast.

I was just glad I never had to make any radio calls for him below 100 feet, because I sure as heck would have broken a wrist or some fingers going for the PTT.
 

NYCPilot

Incorporated.
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Messages
645
Total Time
.00001
Where does the name "george" originate from when refering to the AP.
 

Cardinal

Of The Kremlin
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Messages
2,308
Total Time
K's
Saw a pilot land a Beech like that once...then a passenger asked, "Gee, sure looked like you were workin' hard!!"

And to add one irrelevant point to the discssion, that tower controller sounded hot!
 

mar

Remember this one?
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Messages
1,929
Total Time
9500
Looked like standard Metroliner technique to me.

NYCPilot said:
Where does the name "george" originate from when refering to the AP.
I think George is just a funny way to think of the autopilot as a "third" pilot, so to speak.

You know, Dick is the Capt, Tom is the copilot, George is the autopilot.

<shrug>
 

profile

Shem Malmquist
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
279
Total Time
12,000
The end result does appear to be the same, and generally will be, unless there are any adverse handling quality issues. Unfortunately, except for the newest fighters coming off the line, none of the aircraft currently flying have really been tested for high gain pilot inputs, so it is a good way to discover something new!
 

AA717driver

A simpler time...
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
4,911
Total Time
+/-13k
profile said:
Unfortunately, except for the newest fighters coming off the line, none of the aircraft currently flying have really been tested for high gain pilot inputs, so it is a good way to discover something new!
Yeah, this thread initially reminded me of that video of the F-22 during one of the early flights when they lost the FCC's and it was bobbing all over the place till the pilot finally got a decent belly landing out of it. Must have hit the bottom of the oscillation juuuuussssttttt right. :) TC
 
Top